Weighted GPA, Unweighted GPA, Class Rank, and College Admission
Why do high schools give extra weights to honors, Advanced Placement (AP), and International Baccalaureate (IB) courses?
Readers of some of my other posts related to GPA have expressed confusion. I have stated that admissions folks at selective colleges are most interested in your unweighted GPA. So these extra weightings are, in effect, stripped in order to come up with your core academic GPA.
So why do high schools give these extra weightings, only to have them taken away by colleges?
Answer: Class rank.
High schools face a problem: how to rank kids by GPA when they have very different curricula? One student is taking Calculus III in senior year, while another is just getting through Algebra 2. Both earn an A in their respective math classes. In order to give the first student a higher rank in the graduating class, schools need to add a little something to the value of that A in Calculus.
Colleges do like to know where students rank in their high school class. Some schools report rank right on the transcript, which is helpful shorthand for college admissions officers. Class rank, then, is a reflection of both academic performance (grades) and the rigor of the curriculum—in comparison with other students at the same school.
But some high schools do neither calculate nor report class rank. This some schools do not give extra weight honors classes. Some weigh AP classes more—or less—than honors or IB courses. There is no standard practice among high schools in the United States.
Should this lack of standardization worry you as you apply to colleges?
Answer: Not really.
College admissions folks, especially at the most selective colleges and universities, are quite accustomed to comparing apples to oranges. Most sophisticated admissions operations will also have a bead on specific high schools (often specific officers are responsibile for certain cities, regions, or states), and most high schools submit “school profile” reports along with your transcript, to help college admissions officers interpret your grades. Ivy League schools even have some complicated formulas they use that factor in class rank, test scores, and GPA to come up with a number that helps them to compare apples to apples.
So what should you take away from this discussion?
1. Understand the difference between your weighted and unweighted GPA and its importance in the admissions process.
2. Understand that the grades that count the most are those in your academic core subjects.
3. Understand that class rank is important in the process (but no so much that you should fight tooth and nail for that one-thousandth of a point difference to move up a notch–more on that later!).
4. Know that admissions officers have seen all this before, and they are professional (but not scientific!) in how they do their job.
UPDATE October 13, 2009: For more on GPA and class rank, you might want to check out this post here.
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37 Responses to “Weighted GPA, Unweighted GPA, Class Rank, and College Admission”
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As someone who hasn’t been in school in quite a while, and who doesn’t have kids, your information on extra weighting for AP classes gave me a new perspective.
In addition, the part regarding how college admissions officers are very savvy in comparing students from different schools is interesting, given recent changes Fairfax County VA has made in its grading system. Some argued no change was necessary but parents (and to an extent, students) pushed hard to have a score of 90 counted as an A (vs. 94). I suppose standardization can’t hurt. As you note, there is no standardization where extra credit is concerned.
Steve,
You are exactly right: the hullabaloo in Fairfax County was probably much ado about nothing. Having graded many a paper and many an exam, I can tell you that grading is not now and never has been an exact science, no matter how numerical results are reported. Whether an A is a 94 or a 90 makes little difference. What everyone wants to know is how your kid stacks up in comparison to others. This is where class rank comes in handy for colleges. Everyone wants hard and fast rules. It’s frustrating for many parents–and students–to learn that there are very few.
Thanks for visiting and for your comment!
Mark,
What an interesting and informative website you have! My child’s high school is considering eliminating the weighting of honors classes, both for GPA and class rank. A group of parents is planning to go to the school board meeting tonight to protest this move. Is this a worthwhile protest, and if so, can you give me some convincing arguments?
Thanks so much for your help!
Jill,
I think I am responding too late to be helpful for your purposes . I see no reason to protest. Eliminating weightings means that the school is also eliminating class rankings. This is not a tragedy. Some schools experience undue competition among students (and their parents!) for exceedingly miniscule differences in GPA. Kids vie to become valedictorian.
This is not worth fighting for. Highly selective colleges love to be able to reject valedictorians. And remember that most selective colleges strip the weightings anyway.
Colleges will receive information about your school, about the courses offered, and can make judgments about the academic rigor of an individual student’s academic performance without weightings and without a class rank. They do this all the time, as many of the most prestigious private high schools in the country neither give extra weights for honors nor calculate class rank.
Thanks for your response. To clarify, their plan was to eliminate weightings, yet continue to have class rankings, absurd though that might seem. At any rate, a number of parents spoke at the board meeting, and they agreed to spend more time researching the subject, so they will not implement any change with this year’s class.
Jill,
Thanks for the heads up. Probably a good idea for the Board to wait. Seems kooky to eliminate weightings and keep class rank. But, then again, it might actually be a healthy thing for American society to elevate a kid who got a 4.0 in auto mechanics to the position of valedictorian. After all, in today’s economy, it is the mechanics who work on used cars who are seeing their businesses expand!
Keep us posted on the Board’s decisions, and thanks again for visiting.
Here is my petition as a parent to my kid’s school to institute weighted class rank Any comments would be welcome!
jrstone@comcast.net
Petition to ISD 197
February 9, 2009.
Objective:
The senior parents listed below are petitioning Henry Sibley High School to offer seniors an alternative class rank based on weighted AP classes.
This new class rank should be made available to any college upon the senior’s request by February 17th.
Issue addressed by petition:
Sibley’s top class rank students can’t get into top colleges because of their lower ACT scores, and Sibley’s top ACT scorers can’t get in because of their lower class rank.
Background:
The top colleges are very competitive today due to the swelling population of baby-boomer’s children and limited job opportunities of many post-secondary school graduates.
The ISD 197 mission statement “is to provide a supportive…learning environment”.
ISD 197 supports its athletically-gifted students by showcasing them in the top teams and promoting college athletic recruiting efforts.
ISD 197 supports its artistically-inclined students by separating them into varying levels of skill level and promoting college art and performance recruiting efforts.
ISD 197 supports its special-ed students by providing extensive support and individualized learning activities.
Unfortunately, ISD 197 does NOT adequately support the students who choose to enroll in the most challenging academic A/P classes. These students are finding that their class rank is being driven down far enough that they are not making the cut at some of the colleges they are applying to.
Expand current weighting system:
Henry Sibley High School currently uses weighted grading to rank their students.
Most (but not all) classes are assigned a weight of 1.
All Special-Ed classes are weighted with a multiplier of less than 1.
Senior parents would like add an additional weighted class rank to include the most challenging A/P classes.
The A/P classes should be given a weight of 20% or so over other classes. The exact number is not important. But it does need to be a significant bump to differentiate the most challenging classes.
Benefit of Petition action:
The higher academic achievers at Henry Sibley will have far greater chances of being accepted at the better colleges.
Many people don’t realize how much it hurts Sibley kids to have an un-weighted class rank. The most harmful aspect is that MANY juniors & seniors shy away from A/P classes because they don’t want to risk reducing their GPA. For a student to avoid the most rigorous classes Sibley has to offer is such a disservice to the child and the community at large. In the end, avoiding rigorous classes is going to short-change a student in their post-secondary endeavors.
Con of Petition action:
There is no downside of this petition. The weighted class rank would be an OPTIONAL and ADDITIONAL class rank.
The current un-weighted class rank would still be available and usable by all seniors.
Cost of Petition action:
D197 uses TIES software. Because so many other TIES client schools are offering a weighted class rank, the tools are already in place to make this change.
Therefore the cost is limited to entering a weight in a dozen class records and re-calculating the class rank. According to TIES, it should require only a few hours of work for the guidance department.
Dilemma of two class rank systems:
Many schools offer two class rank systems, both weighted and un-weighted (Edina High School for example).
Post-secondary schools have made it clear that they want to see each student in the best possible light.
If an applicant has two ACT scores, the colleges are only interested in the BEST score.
The same holds true for class rank. As long as the class rank is identified as weighted or un-weighted, colleges are satisfied.
What this petition is NOT requesting:
Weighted grades are NOT being requested.
We are requesting that weighted grades be used in an additional CLASS RANK calculation.
Weighted grades need not be printed.
Weighted grades would be perceived as having winners and losers. Weighted grades would be divisive to the school and the community. They would serve little purpose.
A weighted class rank OPTION would have no losers, only winners.
Fulfilling the ISD 197 Mission statement:
Our mission … assures … high achievement for all …learners.
Many Henry Sibley seniors have received supportive learning from the school district. After completing high achievement in the most challenging classes, the seniors are not able to demonstrate their “high achievement” due to Sibley’s un-weighted class rank.
Remember that “perception is reality”. If the high achievement is not visible via a class rank, then the colleges cannot reward Sibley students commensurate with their achievement.
How do other local high schools handle this?:
The most progressive and successful local high schools have moved to a weighted class rank. Edina, Lakeville, and many others have been promoting their top students in this way for many years.
From the Edina High School web site:
How does EHS currently report class rank to colleges and universities?
Currently EHS reports two class ranks on transcripts: an unweighted rank, based on a cumulative unweighted GPA, and a weighted rank, based on a cumulative weighted GPA. Only Advanced Placement courses taken at Edina High School are assigned a weighted value of 1.2 for purposes of calculating a weighted rank
It is time for Henry Sibley to join the ranks of the best local schools and support our top students too!
Do colleges look at class rank?:
The most competitive schools list class rank at the very top of their admissions criteria, more important than GPA or ACT score. The following examples are from the college’s web site:
The Air Force Academy states “The average of recent entering classes is the top three percent of their high school”.
Stanford shows “95% of the admitted freshman rank in the top 10% of their high school”.
The above colleges MUST keep their entrance requirements high – that is what makes them so desirable.
Some of Sibley’s top students fall below the threshold due to no weighting. If the Air Force academy were to admit one of Sibley’s top seniors (whose class rank is at 10% due to lack of weighting), then the Air Force Academy must find four other candidates at the top 1% to balance a Sibley admission. This is impossible, so the Sibley student is shut out!
This situation is replayed with dozens of Sibley students at dozens of colleges, only to have too many Sibley graduates denied college admissions at the better schools.
Sibley does not fulfill its mission by pushing many of their high-achieving seniors below the college cut-off thresholds for class rank.
Lets see a few examples:
It is easier to visualize how a weighted class rank can affect students with a few examples.
The first two are actual individuals in the Henry Sibley class of 2009:
Student #1: One of the top Sibley achievers this year received the highest academic distinction Sibley has to offer, the College Board A/P Scholar with Distinction. He/she was the only student to receive this award in years. He/she also received the highest Sibley score on the ACT.
Because this student took on at least 5 A/P classes, his/her class rank dropped below the minimum threshold for many of the top colleges. Weighted class rank would improve this student’s chances of acceptance at a top college.
Student #2: A student at the 30% class rank was rejected from UW-Madison because he took several A/P classes. A few “B” grades pushed his/her class rank down far enough that UW-Madison let other high school graduates take his/her spot.
Weighted class rank would improve this student’s chances of acceptance at a top college.
Student #3: A student approached his Sibley guidance counselor requesting assistance in applying to the Air Force Academy. The guidance counselor responded that no one from Sibley has been admitted to the Air Force Academy.
Weighted class rank would improve this student’s chances of acceptance at a top college.
Student #4: After speaking with many parents, it became clear that many seniors avoided A/P classes to keep their class rank near the top. But because these rigorous A/P classes are helpful to do well on the ACT test, these students scored too low on the ACT to pass the minimum threshold for the top colleges. These rigorous A/P classes would be helpful for students to succeed in college after Sibley graduation.
Weighted class rank would improve this student’s chances of acceptance at a top college.
The top students will do fine anyways. Why should we make a change?
Sibley has some of the best students and teachers anywhere. If even one or two more kids get accepted into the top colleges each year, the entire Sibley community benefits.
Parents would think twice about sending their children to private schools if the local public school students were getting more of the most competitive college spots.
More students choosing public education would increase District 197’s revenue, resulting in more state resources to utilize at Sibley. This will keep real estate desirable in the district’s neighborhoods.
Its true that the top students will do fine anyways. But weighted grades would actually help the second tier of students even more than the top tier. The brightest straight “A” students will always rank at the top regardless of weighting.
It is the next group of students most affected that are taking the tough classes and being pushed down in the class rank because they received some “B”s and “C”s.
These are the students where maybe school doesn’t come so easy, and have chosen to take classes which are very challenging to them.
Timeliness:
Colleges are determining their acceptances at the end of February 2009. Sibley fall semester grades have recently been calculated. This is the last chance to get several more Sibley students into their top college choices.
Time is of the essence; please respond to the senior parents at the February 17 School Board listening session at 6 pm.
It’s a bit confusing, but do I understand that it’s your opinion that I shouldn’t be concerned if my kids’ high school (which is already on the state’s Academic Watch list) is planning on dropping class rank AND GPA weighting at the same time? In a way, isn’t that allowing everyone rise to the same level of mediocrity? Or, am I missing the point?
Hi, Randy.
I don’t think you are missing the point. Different schools may need different systems. If your school is on the academic watch list, the administration may be changing policy to make itself look better. If they are dropping both ranking and weighting, then they may, indeed, be trying to present themselves as better than they are. As I have written elsewhere on my blog, schools and colleges do love to manipulate statistics if it will help make them look better. So you are asking the right question from an institutional point of view.
My angle with this and similar posts is that students should not be lulled into believing that GPA weighting will allow them to become complacent: “my B really equals an A in a ‘regular’ course!”. And I do believe that class rank can be important in the admissions process, even though many schools no longer report it.
Anyway, what’s important for you is to keep these two “levels of analysis” separate. You are right to ask questions about the motivation of your school administration to change policy. They may be trying to paint lipstick on the pig. But at the same time, keep that issue separate from how you advise your child: take the most challenging courses available, work hard, get good grades.
Hope this is helpful, and thanks for your question.
Dear Mohammed,
Thanks for your question. I have no doubt that there are many US universities that would find you to be a very attractive candidate for admission. Of course, we would have to work together to talk about more specifics. But I do enjoy working with students from other parts of the world as they map their educational future in the United States.
Thanks for visiting my blog!
In the area where I live, students are able to take classes through the community college and have these appear on their college transcript. However, a student who take General Biology (UC/CSU transferable) will not recieve the extra grade point of a student who takes AP Biology through the school. This hurts their class rank, but does it hurt their admission chances? Also, if class rank is based on GPA, then students who have a zero period are at a disadvantage because one AP class divided into 6 classes is a higher GPA than one AP class divided into 7 classes (assuming same grade in all classes). Will these students be penalized in the college selection process?
Hello, Katie. I see that you live in California, as your community college courses are transferable to the California higher ed systems. Though I’m not an expert on UC or CSU admissions, I cannot see that taking college level courses that are (by law) transferable would hurt a kid’s chances of admissions. Remember that high schools submit a profile to each college, and it is the job of every admissions office in the UC/CSU system to know the high schools of each and every applicant (from California, anyway!). If the courses appear on the transcripts, the admissions folks will retool the GPA based on the courses taken. Usually this is all done by computer, when grades are entered electronically and show up on a screen and can be easily manipulated to refigure GPAs. But I learned on a recent visit to Berkeley that the UCs still us PAPER APPLICATIONS! Can you believe it? As the director of admissions joked, Berkeley is a campus on which styrofoam is banned, but still the administration uses a paper application system.
The fact is that this process of admission is an art, not a science. Even at the big state schools, there is nothing “automatic” about admission. So it is perhaps possible that there is a slight difference in GPA and class rank between the student who takes an AP course and one who takes a dual enrollment course a the community college. So I’d ask you to focus less on the GPA and more on the education received. Which is a better, more challenging course? AP or dual enrollment? Can the student do well on the high-stakes AP test at the end of the course? An AP score of 5 looks pretty good, and is a national measure of competence in the subject–whereas an A from the community college instructor may not have that national referent.
At some point you need to decide when it is appropriate to worry about the numbers, and when it is important to focus on the quality of the education received. Admissions officers nationwide will tell you that they focus on the latter. Though they make mistakes and often have to compare apples to oranges, I think they generally do a pretty good job of sorting out things out. But it’s not scientific. If we want scientific, we need to go to a nationalized, standardized secondary education system. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. So we’re left with an imperfect college admissions process.
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What would you say about colleges putting GPA and class rank on a pedestal. For instance, a girl from my school just transferred from the 8th school in the country. There her GPA was 4.5 and they used a weighted grading system. While here we use an unweighted grading system. Now her GPA is a 3.9 because her +’s and -’s did not transfer. Therefore her class rank dropped and she was not accepted into the college of her choice.
Hello, Ms. Right. Thanks for your question.
I think the issue here is your assumption that because her GPA was lowered that “therefore she was not accepted into the college of her choice.” On what evidence do you make this assumption? Do you know it was her GPA–and no other variable (test scores, extracurricular activities, teacher recommendations, leadership ability, special talents, athletics, etc.)?
In my experience, there is never a single variable that explains why a person was accepted or rejected by a super-selective college or university. Admissions in the US is not a science. Colleges do not–contrary to popular belief–have clear and concrete admissions standards with bright lines demarcating those who are acceptable and those who are not. Admissions is an art. It’s about impressions. It’s about context. It’s about building a freshman class. It’s never about the difference between a 3.9 and a 4.0 . The variables in admission are too many, too overlapping, too inconsistent from one candidate to the next. Even at Harvard, there is a significant percentage of admitted students who do not fall in the top 10% of their high school graduating class–so there are plenty of kids who may actually have a 3.7 or a 3.6–or maybe even a 3.0 GPA.
So do colleges put GPA and class rank on a pedestal? Not exactly. Are these factors important? You betcha. Are they decisive or determinant one way or the other? No.
Hope this brings some perspective to the issue. Admissions is complicated, isn’t it? Thanks again for visiting my blog.
We are looking at getting rid of the weighted classes we have in our school, due to lack of “rigorness” given by our instructors. My questions are as follows:
How worthy are weighted classes?
What classes should be weighted?
How do colleges view weighted classes?
What questions should be answered before a weighted class be offered?
Does the board of Ed. have to ok a weighted class?
Why do schools have weighted classes?
Any more information on weighted classes please you input.
Dear John,
Thanks for the questions. I get this sort of question a lot from some of the schools for which I do consulting work. Basically, just because a course is weighted doesn’t mean that the course is better. Presumably, however, the level of rigor is higher for weighted courses. The weights are given to reward top performing kids for challenging themselves with harder material and more difficult demands. As for policies and procedures in your school district, I’d have to refer you to your school officials for that sort of thing. With about 14,000 school districts in the US, each one has its own rules.
With regard to how colleges view them, the answer is that they do look for rigorous courses on a student’s transcript. But the actual weights are often removed by colleges–or benignly ignored. What schools are looking for his high performance in rigorous courses. Some districts signal that rigor by awarding more “weight.”
I’m not sure that helps, but if you think I might be able to assist, give me a ring and we’ll see what I can do to help in your particular situation.
Thanks!
Dear Mark,
My child attends a small parochial high school in Montana with the “kooky” system you mentioned in post #6- unweighted grades and yet still a class rank. My son has a GPA of 3.83 with all college prep classes and an SAT score of 2320 but a class rank of 23/85. Is he doomed as far as a selective college goes?
Hi, Dan.
Heck, no. He’s not doomed. Every school must send a profile to colleges that explains its grading system and its ranking criteria. Colleges will look at his grades, his exemplary SAT score, and all of his other credentials. No single, goofy statistic is going to mess it up.
If your son is applying to very selective colleges, one way to highlight the ranking system’s wackiness might be to gently ask the college counselor or whoever does the Secondary School Report to indicate in your son’s recommendation that ranking is based on unweighted grades, and thus the ranking may not reflect the rigor of his courses. You’ll have to do this diplomatically, of course. But college admissions folks are pretty savvy. They’re going to look at the rigor of the courses, the grades earned, and scores on SATs, SAT 2 tests, and AP exams before jumping to conclusions about class rank.
Thanks for your question!
Is there a correlation between an unweighted grading system and use of class rank? In other words, could it be suggested that a school that uses unweighted grading ought to NOT rank? thanks.
Dear J,
Thanks for your question.
First, let me state the obvious: you don’t want to rile the school administration over this issue. Your daughter has an impeccable academic record, and I’m sure the counseling staff and teachers want to do the right thing by her by giving her fantastic recommendations for college. Whether or not she is valedictorian will carry next to no weight at the schools to which she applies. Being #1 or #2 with a couple of hundredths of points difference between students is immaterial in the admissions process–most likely because #1 and #2 and #5 will not be applying to the same colleges. So while you are right to raise the issues, I wouldn’t get too hot and bothered by something that matters little in the overall scheme of things. Your fury could actually damage the high regard teachers and administrators likely have of her. Don’t become obsessed with rank like the “other parents” you describe.
Second, keep in mind that what matters most are the grades, not the absolute rank. Is she still going to be in the top 5% of the class? Is she getting all A grades (with one A-minus…oh, the horror!)? Then she’s going to be fine in the admissions process. I’m also going to assume that her curriculum is very rigorous (with “several” AP courses). Again, whether or not she is ranked #1, the first issue is her grades (which are clearly great) and her curriculum (which I am assuming is very rigorous).
Third, I can’t tell how large your school is, but I’m guessing it’s rather small. So the stakes may seem higher for that #1 slot, and parents are more attuned to how many tenths and hundredths of a point spread there is between #1 and #5. This is ridiculous, in my view, but then my son it as a public high school with 918 in his freshman class. I’ll be thrilled if he is in the top 5%, as literally only a thousandth of a point can differentiate between “winning” and “losing.” But we have to remember that education is not a swim race: the kid in lane four is applying to different colleges than the kid in lane three (and even if they are applying the same college, the college does not give a hoot about the difference–unless one kid is in the top 25% of his class and the other in the top 3%).
Personally, I think smaller schools should do away with ranking altogether. The counseling staff is likely experienced enough that they can describe a student’s performance without making it a horse race. Many, many smaller schools–and many larger ones–are eliminating rank–in large part because parents are always fighting about it. School administrators are simply fed up. And college admissions folks manage just fine without it.
Finally, as for whether rank should be determined by weighted or unweighted GPA, generally I think it is meaningless to rank on unweighted grades (but the difference between a 4.3 A+ and 4.0 A is a fray I will avoid). My reference to “weights” is a reflection of the rigor (perceived–not necessarily real!) of the course. An AP course, therefore, gets more weight than a “college prep” course. With weights, the rank then reflects not only the grade earned, but also the rigor of the coursework. Without weights, you could have a situation in which e a student who takes lower level courses, adds in a bunch of basket weaving and interpretive dance, and gets a 4.0 with an easy, schmeazy course load–and could be ranked #1–while some poor boy slaves away at 18 AP courses and gets a single A minus — and he’s toast.
My overall take is that class ranking at larger high schools can be helpful to college admissions only as they interpret the relative rigor of a student’s coursework. All this business about valedictorian and salutatorian and bigbrainatorian is archaic silliness that just serves to heighten the competitive aspects of education. I repeat: education is not a race. There is nothing to “win” by being #1. Maybe you win self-satisfaction–if self-satisfaction is really a goal that is intrinsically important to a 17 year-old. But winning this race comes with no money, no crown, no scepter, and certainly no all-expense paid ticket to the college of your choice.
If I were you, I’d go into your school, point out the inconsistency and inanity of the ranking system, and then take your daughter out to dinner to celebrate the fact that she is a wonderful, intelligent, hardworking young lady with a very bright future.
Thanks Mark,
To be perfectly clear, my issue (my anger) is and was never about “rank”, or valedictorian, but that the school set a policy (to create a 4.3 value), then changed their minds after transcripts (with GPA and Rank assigned) had gone home, and then didn’t communicate anything about that change to parents.
I just got back from my meeting with the principal and I think it went as well–I got to say what I needed to say, he took ownership for the debacle. As I suspected, they did not do their due diligence in making their 4.3 policy before this school year started; and then made it worse (at least from my pt of view) to reverse it back to a 4.0. And the lack of transparency about these flip floppy policies, adds to the ambiguity.
Though a rank of 1 or 3 in a small school means diddly to us, and more importantly to our daughter, the university that offers full tuition to the top ranked student in the school might have sent that letter to someone else, had they known the deck would be re-shuffled.
So, my “complaints” going in to the meeting were 1) rigor and due diligence in setting policy, esp given the myriad of arguments for weight/unweight/rank/etc and 2) lack of communication about those changes.
i did add that when they get around to mentioning (for what it was worth) that in a small school with unweighted grades, we’d be better off if there was no ranking. He agreed.
As well, I opened the meeting by saying that I was primarily on an information expedition. I wanted to understand the process for setting policy, then reversing it. My complaints (as described above) about that process followed. Thanks again.
Hello, J.
Thanks for writing back.
You’re absolutely right that the policy change was poorly handled, and the communication of it even worse. I’m glad the principal took responsibility for the incident–even as I still sorta feel sorry for him, as this whole brouhaha about ranking is driven by forces beyond his control. Maybe he’ll have the guts to pull the plug on ranking altogether. But having endured that hot seat in the past few weeks, he may just want to let sleeping dogs lie.
As you say, too, there are still a few silly colleges out there who award scholarships to valedictorians. When pressed, even the admissions directors who create these policies know they are silly. If they communicate the public that they have a “holistic” admissions review process, and then just give away a scholarship based on a single criterion, then they are being a bit duplicitous. The sad fact is that some colleges will do most anything to attract top students to apply. Further, if someone like your daughter dropped in rank from 1st to 3rd, I’d bet dollars to donuts that the same college would offer your daughter the very same scholarship, anyway. Savvy admissions officers know a good student when they see one.
No, this race to the rankings is silly all around. And yet, we kling to them, don’t we (shall we discuss the US News & World Report rankings next?)?
All the best to you!
Hello Mark,
There are some students in my grade taking 3 AP courses while I (accedentally) chose 1. It was a really silly (and stupid) mistake, but I was wondering… will my rank go down dramatically because of this? If I’m 20 in class rank (I am currently 3rd out of 562, but I’m going to go down anyways), will Ivy League schools look at my transcript?
Thanks
Shelly,
Thanks for your comment. Your absolute rank (nor any other single factor) is going to exclude you from the Ivy League. There are simply too many other factors that determine Ivy League admission. If your class rank dips to #20, you are still well within the top 5% of students at your school. Which is great. Furthermore, just because students took more AP courses does not mean that their rank will go up–for all depends on how well they do in those courses. So don’t focus so much on the numbers. Focus on getting great grades in the courses you are now taking, challenge yourself again next year, and choose colleges that fit you well. And keep in mind that there are unlikely to be more than a handful of students from your school that will be accepted to the Ivy League. It’s not merely about the numbers.
Best of luck to you.
I’m a junior in high school, and I’m hoping to get admitted to a university such as Rice or Dartmouth. I’m not sure my GPA is high enough once it is UNWEIGHTED. Personally I feel like weighted should be accepted because AP classes are difficult and require the extra mile. My weighted GPA is a 4.0 A average and my unweighted GPA is 3.0 is a B average…I’m hoping that the fact that I’m a basketball player will mitigate their judgment on my naked, measly 3.0.
Dear Mark,
At my school, there is one girl who has a an extremely close GPA to mine, and she’s just slightly lower ranked than me (I’m 1 and she’s 2). Both me and this girl and in IB, however, we do not have the same schedule: She has Calculus BC AP and I have Statistics AP (I haven’t taken Calculus at all). However, I have taken Physics Honors and I am currently in Physics B AP, and she has taken neither.B Beyond those two classes, we have had the same exact schedule for 4 years. Also, this girl is applying to many of the same colleges I am, primarily because we both want to pursue law. My question is, because she has such a similar GPA to me, will her Calculus BC against my Statistics affect my college admisisons? Or will my Physics B AP, and her lack of Physics courses, balance the difference out, or something like that?
Dear Joseph,
I’m not sure where you are applying, but it sounds to me that both you and your competitor (if we can call her that, which we shouldn’t) are both going to be “qualified” for admission. It will not boil down to Physics or Calculus. It will boil down to your other talents and abilities and how each of you fits into the community that high selective colleges are able to build. Stop splitting hairs and enjoy life. Engage in your passions. Those are the things that will get you into a competitive school. You and she have great credentials. Unfortunately, these basic credential are not the only thing admissions offices are seeking. Perhaps both of you will be accepted to the same school. But you could both be rejected, too.
In actuality, you are not competing with this girl. So send her a nice note on Facebook and wish her luck with her college applications. It’s not you against her. It’s you against thousands of other, equally qualified kids.
One final note: why is the fact that you both want to study law leading you both to apply to the same colleges? No college offers a major in law at the undergraduate level. The fact is that any college–and most any major–can prepare you for law school.
Best of luck to you both!
Hello, T.
You should also look at whether your unweighted GPA is your “real GPA” : http://greatcollegeadvice.com/calculating-your-real-grade-point-average-gpa/ .
And then I might ask, how good a basketball player are you? And no matter whether your ability, I’m sure you know that in basketball you get no points for working hard and playing against tough teams. Either you win the game, or you don’t. Same rule applies to academics. Effort is admirable; but performance is what counts.
Good luck, T!
Mark,
Interesting topic. Congrats.
I have a question: I transferred schools in my senior year -from a smaller/private one that doesn’t rank to a public one that does. The transfer lowered my GPA and with a ranking of 30% I am worried about my Ivy options. I attribute my low ranking to the fact that my current school has a less rigorous program which is evidenced by my higher ACT scores (30) in comparison to my school’s average (22) but how do I highlight that in my application.
Hi, Vanessa. Thanks for the question.
First, enlist the help of your current–or former–school counselor to help explain the transfer and the numerical ramifications. If you were dunned statistically, the counselor should explain why, and estimate where you really fit in the class–from an intellectual and performance point of view. Second, do include a short explanation of why you transferred schools as part of your application. Finally, your teacher recommendations will be critical. You may need one from your old school and one from your current school.
I hope this helps.
PS: Look beyond the football club that is the Ivy League. Just because these schools are labeled with some green plant does not mean that they have anything else in common!
Hi,
I am an international student. I completed over one hundred college credits in my home country, but I still need to complete my core courses and my psychology classes because I decided to change majors. I have a 3.7 in my community college so far, however my GPA from the foreign University is a 2.7 so it is affecting terribly my chances of getting into a good college.Is there any advice you can give me? I would really appreciate it.
Thank you
Mark,
I am a freshman this year and I am taking some very rigorous courses. I’m on a block schedule and am taking honors math and lit courses as well as A.P. human geo and an engineering class at the A.P. grading scale. I am also a three-sport athlete and a musician in a very decorated band program. This first term, I got B’s in AP human geo and the engineering class, while working fairly hard. I am wondering what to do with those classes. Although they are helping raise my weighted GPA, they definitely are hurting my non-weighted GPA, so I am wondering if I should continue with those AP classes or drop down to the regular class and get A’s. What would colleges rather see on my transcript; a B in an AP class, or an A in a regular class?
Hi, Mike.
“Fairly hard”? It’s clear your really busy. Three sports, high-level musician, academics (including AP classes as a freshman). Perhaps something will have to give. Do you want it to be academics?
If so, you have a choice. Take easier classes and be seen as “pulling back from your potential.” Or take the B grades, and be at peace that you are making a decision to stay challenged, but be less worried about super-selective admissions. Focus on learning, not on the grade. Sounds like it could be a sane approach.
On the other hand, perhaps you could drop one of your extracurriculars?
My grandmother, who grew up dirt-poor, always used to marvel that her grandchildren had so many opportunities and so many choices. But I always had to remind her that making the choices is not always so easy. You may have to make those choices. I wish I could make it easier for you.
Good luck.
Alexa,
You don’t mention the country you are from, but rest assured: your GPA from your secondary school will be evaluated in the context in which you earned it. All college admissions folks in the US have at least some experience with international transcripts, and they know that not all countries share the same grading system as the US. So either they have developed expertise “in house” to evaluate foreign transcripts. Or they may submit transcripts to third-party evaluators to get an expert reading of the transcript. So your community college GPA will be judged from within that context, and the secondary school GPA will be judged from within its own, very different context.
Good luck!
hey mark. i have spoke to you before about getting into college and how worried i was. i want to get into a nursing program and have heard it’s pretty tough. i have all A’s and one B as of right now and have been on honor roll since sophomore year. im a junior now. im at a vocational school and in the earlychildcare shop. this is my first year here, my other two years were at a public highschool. i volunteer at a hospital 2 hours a week and play softball and am on student council. i plan to take some courses at a community colleges such as spanish 4 becuase i finished spanish 3 and my school doesnt offer another spanish. any other ideas? thanks.