The critical factors are the quality of your specific high school’s program, your student’s ability to thrive in that environment, and their capacity to earn strong grades in challenging coursework.

For families navigating the complex path to top-tier admissions, understanding how to maximize your student’s chances at competitive colleges begins with making strategic curriculum decisions. And this decision should be based on individual circumstances, not chasing one “preferred” program.

What Is AP (Advanced Placement)?

Advanced Placement (AP) is a program created by the College Board offering college-level courses and exams to high school students. If IB is a “prix fixe” dinner menu, think of AP as an academic buffet: students can pick and choose individual courses that interest them most and leave behind those that tempt them less.

The flexibility is a key advantage: students can focus their AP courses in subjects where they have relative strengths.  For instance, a STEM-oriented student could double down on science and math AP courses, while others may opt for more courses in social sciences or languages. This freedom to choose is at the heart of the program and reflects American educational values that recognize no two students are identical.

The AP program is not a full curriculum. Rather, it’s a collection of rigorous high school syllabi that are assessed according to a normed standard. Exams are scored by qualified AP teachers nationwide during a single week each summer. Whether you attend a public school in Wyoming or a private school in Massachusetts, a score of 5 on an AP exam is considered the same high achievement. A 3 is considered “passing,” while 2s and 1s are considered failing.

With AP, students can take as few or as many courses as they wish. High-performing students often have the opportunity to take 10 or more AP courses across their high school career. Some schools allow students to take AP courses as early as freshman year.

What Is IB (International Baccalaureate)?

The International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma Programme is a comprehensive two-year curriculum for students in their final two years of high school. Unlike AP’s approach, IB is a “prix fixe” or fixed menu: you commit to the entire program. But at some schools, it is possible to take one or two IB classes without pursuing the DP(Diploma Programme).

The IB was developed in Europe as a curricular compromise; an amalgam of the British, French, and German secondary school approaches. It is generally much more narrowly focused than the traditional American high school experience.

IB students must fulfill six subject slots across different disciplines:

1. Language A (mother tongue)
2. Language B (second language)
3. Mathematics
4. Science
5. History/Social Science
6. Elective slot (which can be arts, a second science for STEM students, or a second social science).

Students choose three subjects at Higher Level and three at Standard Level—and they study the same subjects for both 11th and 12th grade.

Beyond coursework, IB requires an Extended Essay (a 4,000-word independent research project), Theory of Knowledge classes, and CAS hours (Creativity, Activity, Service). As Jamie Berger, a highly acclaimed college admissions counselor with decades of experience, notes, “A big part of IB revolves around completing this one big project, and whether that’s something they would want to focus on” is worth serious consideration.

Exams are scored 1-7, with 6-7 representing high achievement. A perfect 7 on an IB exam is considered equivalent, no matter where in the world the student attended school.

While the IB program globally offers quite a few different courses, the reality is that in US public and private high schools, the range of choices can be quite narrow. Most schools offer only three different science options, one or two foreign languages, and limited social science selections. Economies of scale dictate these limitations—smaller IB programs don’t have enough students to justify a wide variety of subjects. Look carefully at what a high school does and doesn’t offer before committing.

Do Ivy League Schools Prefer IB Over AP or Vice Versa?

Colleges like both AP and IB. Both programs represent rigorous curricular requirements, and the exams associated with those courses serve as an external measure of quality. Any student who does well on the end-of-course exams can claim to have done college work in a high school setting.

According to Jamie:

“There is no straightforward answer to IB vs AP. AP is more the standard that colleges are used to, but IB is becoming more and more recognized. And it really depends on the student and the school. Some schools have a much stronger IB program than an AP program.”

It’s all about the student’s performance. Did they perform at the very top of the scale for either program? Did they pass the independently administered exams with flying colors? If so, colleges will be very interested in those students, regardless of the AP or IB label.

As we say to parents in our Great College Advice Family Handbook: “The higher the challenge and the higher the grade, the more seriously the most selective colleges will consider the applicant.”

Both IB and AP courses contribute to a weighted GPA, signaling to admissions officers that your student has pursued challenging coursework.

How Should We Decide Between an IB School and an AP School?

For some students, the choice will be simple: their high school offers one or the other but not both. If you don’t really have a choice, embrace the curriculum offered by your school and commit to doing the best possible job within that curriculum.

If you’re considering a choice between two high schools—one offering AP and one offering IB—consider your student’s preferences and personality:

Consider AP If

• Your student wants freedom to accelerate learning in areas that interest them most. 
• Wants to double up in subjects where they perform extremely well while dialing back on those that aren’t their cup of tea. 
• Prefers flexibility to balance academics with significant extracurricular commitments. 
• Thrives when they can customize their own path.

Consider IB If

• Your student likes a wide variety of subjects and performs well in all of them. 
• Would benefit from diving deeply into a subject over two years rather than one—some students get more out of IB chemistry or physics because of the extended timeframe. 
• Thrives within structure and enjoys interdisciplinary connections. 
• Values the camaraderie of taking virtually all classes with the same cohort of academically focused peers.

Jamie offers direct guidance: “A mediocre school with AP classes versus a highly regarded IB program? Go to the highly regarded IB program.”

This principle applies in reverse as well. The reputation and track record of the specific school matter more than which curriculum it offers.

How Does AP or IB Affect Extracurricular Activities and Social Life?

This is a factor many families overlook, and it can be decisive.

It can be very difficult for IB diploma students to focus on extracurricular pursuits and still perform academically at the highest levels. Top athletes as well as those who excel in the performing arts sometimes struggle to balance all their commitments.

On the other hand, IB students in programs often benefit from the camaraderie. They take all their classes together, making it easier to create strong friendships with like-minded peers.

The cafeteria-style AP program can be better for students who want to find balance. They can choose only those AP courses that interest them and in which they feel they can succeed—leaving room for athletics, arts, work, or other priorities.

How Many AP or IB Courses Should My Student Take for Ivy League Admission?

For students targeting the Ivy League and top 20 universities, there is no magic number.

The fact is that highly competitive AP students are taking 10+ AP courses and doing well on the exams (scores of 4 or 5). Likewise, highly competitive IB students are not only taking the IB courses but are scoring 5, 6, or 7s on the diploma tests.

However, there are also plenty of students who take lots of AP courses who do not do well on the exams. Many don’t even take them!

Similarly, there are students in IB programs who are unlikely to fulfill all the requirements of the IB diploma. Taking a challenging course is only part of the equation; performance on the standardized assessment matters significantly for college applications.

Jamie notes that “if you’re applying to those most highly selective schools, you should try to do everything at the highest conceivable level.” He adds, “If you’ve gotten through French four, is there a French five? Could you take a college course?”

The Great College Advice Family Handbook addresses this directly: “At the risk of sounding smug, the best path is to take the hard course and get a good grade.”

What Is the Difference Between IB and AP That Matters Most for College Admissions?

The structures of the two programs are very different. Think of it this way:

AP is a smorgasbord: pick the courses you want, leave behind those that tempt you less. Students can focus heavily on areas of passion while meeting minimum requirements in other subjects. The wide range of choice and flexibility reflects American educational values—the recognition that no two students are identical.

IB is a “prix fixe” menu: you get all or nothing. There is a range of choice within IB, but the entire high school curriculum for the final two years is dictated by those initial choices. You make your selections and commit to them for the duration.

For US college admissions, both programs demonstrate academic seriousness. Many colleges award credit for high AP scores (typically 4s and 5s) or high IB scores (typically 6s and 7s), though policies vary by institution and department.

For students considering international options, the distinction matters differently. According to Great College Advice’s UK admissions specialists, selective UK universities have specific requirements: “If a course requires three As on A-levels, that translates into getting fives in three AP classes, or above a six in IB classes.”

How Does Dual Enrollment Compare to IB and AP for Highly Selective Schools?

This question comes up frequently, especially for families whose schools have limited AP or IB offerings. The short answer: highly selective universities, including the Ivy League, tend to prefer AP and IB coursework over dual enrollment for one critical reason—standardization.

IB and AP exams are normed tests. A score of 5 on AP Chemistry presumably means the same thing whether the student attended a private school in Connecticut, a rural public school in Alabama, or an international school in Uruguay. Similarly, a perfect 7 on the IB English A exam would be considered equivalent, no matter where in the world the student attended secondary school.

By contrast, an A in a dual enrollment (DE) chemistry class might or might not represent the same level of mastery. Some high schools have higher standards than others, some community colleges have higher standards than others, and some individual teachers have higher standards than others. Dual enrollment courses are not standardized—there is no “norm.”

However, context matters enormously. If your school does not offer AP or IB courses, then dual enrollment absolutely demonstrates college readiness and should be pursued.

Additionally, if your primary goal is to reduce college costs at a state university, dual enrollment credits offer a guaranteed discount since states typically require these credits to transfer. As one College of William and Mary graduate, Sarah, wrote to us:

“I went to a very small, rural high school in Virginia, and had the opportunity to take DE credit classes through local community colleges. I finished at the top of my class, and I am currently an academic junior at the College of William and Mary. During my freshman year in college, I came to find that a majority of my friends took AP classes, got an A or a high B in the class, but couldn’t get a 4 or 5 on their AP exam—mind you, these students came from great private and public high schools all over the country. All 39 of my dual enrollment credits transferred, and I am graduating in 3 years.”

Sarah’s experience illustrates an important point: the AP course itself doesn’t guarantee college credit. You must also perform well on the high-stakes exam at the end.

What If My School Doesn’t Have Good AP Teachers or a Strong Program?

One thing parents and students ought to keep in mind: ask about pass rates. What percentage of students enrolled in these programs take and pass (or get perfect scores on) the AP or IB assessments? The answer to this question will be a better indicator of program quality than the label.

We have several clients who are getting very high grades in AP courses but who will never be able to pass the AP exams. Their teachers are simply not up to the job of presenting such a demanding curriculum.

Just because a course is labeled “AP” or “IB” does not mean it’s a good course. Nor does the label mean a student will achieve the level of mastery required to score a 5 on the AP exam or earn the IB diploma. Many schools across the country offer AP courses that are very poorly taught. Many teachers simply don’t have the content background or pedagogical skills to prepare students for these rigorous exams.

If your school’s program is weak, you have alternatives:

Consider dual enrollment courses at a local community college, which may offer more consistent instruction and guaranteed transferable credit. Explore online AP courses through accredited providers. Focus on excelling in available honors courses while pursuing depth through independent study, summer programs, or other means.

Remember that admissions officers evaluate you within your school’s context. They want to see that you’ve maximized the rigor available to you, not that you’ve checked a specific box labeled “AP” or “IB.”

Just as we don’t judge books by their cover, we should not judge a program by its label.

Will Colleges View My Student as “Well-Rounded” with IB or Should We Focus on AP Classes in Their Specialty Area?

The concept of “well-rounded” has evolved significantly in competitive admissions. The old model of checking every box no longer distinguishes applicants at highly selective schools.

According to the Great College Advice Family Handbook, students “no longer have to be ‘well-rounded;’ rather, they should be ‘well-lopsided.'”

What does “well-lopsided” mean? Well-lopsided students have superior talents in one or two areas. Admissions officers at the most highly selective colleges like to see students who have well-defined interests in which they excel and exhibit leadership. They do not like to see students who flit from one activity to the next without really committing to any.

The IB Diploma ensures exposure across disciplines, and this doesn’t contradict being well-rounded. For AP students, the flexibility to concentrate courses in areas of strength helps build a coherent academic narrative that supports their intended major or area of focus.

The key is authentic engagement. Jamie emphasizes that students need to “shed the mindset” of trying to figure out what colleges want and “just do it authentically, not right.”

Does IB or AP Better Prepare Students for Ivy League Coursework?

Both IB and AP provide excellent preparation for Ivy League academics, though in different ways.

IB’s interdisciplinary approach mirrors the liberal arts foundation that characterizes Ivy League education. Some students find they get more out of their IB science courses because they dive more deeply into the subject over two years than they can during a one-year AP course.

AP courses mirror introductory college courses directly. Many Ivy League students use AP credit to place out of introductory requirements, allowing them to move into more advanced coursework earlier.

Jamie’s assessment cuts through the debate: “Excelling at either will be great.”

Real Students, Real Choices: Case Studies

The question of which curriculum to choose is not really about college admissions. Rather, it’s about shaping your high school experience. Consider these two students who made different choices that were right for them:

Andrew: This young man attended a small K-8 school for gifted and talented students. He was smart, curious, and academically ambitious—also a little quirky with a small, tight-knit group of equally quirky friends. His primary extracurricular talent was piano; he could pound out a technically perfect and emotionally wrenching Beethoven sonata as if eating a peanut butter sandwich.

When choosing high schools, we encouraged him to consider the IB program at a school across town. There he would be among a small, tight-knit group of academically focused students where he could thrive within the relatively stricter confines of the IB diploma program. He eventually went on to major in computer science at the University of Chicago—itself a great fit for this academically serious, quirky, creative young man.

Nick: A strong musical and theater talent from a young age, Nick attended the same small K-8 school where he had many friends. As a socially gregarious youth, he had outgrown the social limitations of his small school and was itching for new challenges. The school with the IB program was relatively weak in music and drama offerings. His other choice was a large public high school with a Grammy-award winning fine arts program—three orchestras, four bands, and six choirs.

There, he could take an enormous variety of AP courses, including music theory, and juggle lead roles in the annual musical. After taking 12 AP courses and earning a 35 on the ACT, Nick won several performing arts and academic scholarships at highly selective liberal arts colleges. He majored in music with a minor in Spanish, studied history in Spain, and won a research scholarship to study music in Cuba.

Both Andrew and Nick chose the programs that would make their high school experiences comfortable and successful. They enjoyed high school and performed at the highest level. In both cases, it was not the particular curriculum that made them successful; it was their self-understanding of personal priorities that enabled them to get the most out of high school.

Making the Right Choice for Your Student

The question raised at the beginning of this post is about college: which curriculum would be better for admission? The answer is both and neither. The question of which curriculum to choose is really about shaping your student’s high school experience.

Don’t focus on which program will give a better shot at the Ivy League. Both will do the job as long as your student performs at the highest level. Rather, consider which curricular structure best suits your student’s personality, learning style, preferences, and academic curiosities.

If you have the option of choosing one program over another, the choice can be difficult. The path you choose has a huge impact on academic life in high school. So it’s important to choose wisely.

The college prep experts at Great College Advice have extensive experience guiding students through this important decision. We can help by asking questions to elicit your goals and priorities. Either curricular program can be a pathway to college success. College admissions officers respect both. But which is right for your student?

If you need to talk through these priorities and preferences, schedule a free consultation with our expert counseling team. We’d be delighted to help you map your student’s college journey.

The post AP or Dual Enrollment for College Prep? first appeared on Great College Advice.

First, a brief word of explanation about “dual enrollment,” or “post-secondary enrollment options.” Virtually all states allow high school students to enroll in community college or university courses. These courses also apply the credits earned to their high school transcript. Students enroll twice: they earn both high school AND college credits for the same course. In some cases, community college faculty offer these courses in high school, while in other cases, the high school student must travel to the community college campus.

In other cases, community college faculty “approve” or certify high school faculty to offer a college-level course after the college has approved the syllabus. In most instances, parents pay an extra fee for a dual enrollment course. However, the good thing is that this fee translates to college credits that can often (but not always) be transferred to a university when the student graduates from high school (more on that in a moment). No matter how these dual enrollment courses are organized, dually enrolled students receive two sorts of credit for their work. They receive grades on their high school transcript, and the same grades are recorded on their college transcripts.

See our blog post on whether taking an AP course or dual enrollment is right for you.

Advantages of Dual Enrollment

The advantages of dual enrollment courses in college admissions include:

• High schools can offer honors-level courses without hiring new staff
• Districts can save money by partnering with community colleges
• Parents can save on college tuition because these college credits are transferable to most state universities
• Students demonstrate that they can handle college-level work
• Students who doubt their own abilities to succeed in college experience success and are more likely to apply to college–and eventually graduate
• Community colleges and 4-year institutions build a pipeline of students moving from high school to college
• State governments and local governments appreciate the collaboration between K-12 and higher education

In states where dual enrollment options exist, the state government creates master articulation agreements to ensure that credits earned while in high school are guaranteed transfer to higher education systems in that state. Thus, if you take a dual enrollment course in Virginia, your credits are automatically accepted for credit by state-funded universities in Virginia–as long as the grade earned is a C- or above, and as long as the courses are considered academic, “general education” course (as opposed to remedial or developmental courses, or technical or industrial skills courses).

Can Dual Enrollment Credits be Transferred to a 4-Year College?

Are Dual Enrollment Credits Transferable In-State?

Credits for dual enrollment courses taken in high school will automatically–guaranteed–transfer to universities in the same state. As long as students perform adequately in the dual enrollment course, they will receive college credit.  The biggest advantage here is cost savings: those are courses the student (and family) will not have to pay for on the way to a college degree. A dual credit history course taken at a high school in Virginia is the functional and administrative equivalent of a history course at the University of Virginia.

Can Dual Enrollment Credits Transfer Out-of-State?

With regard to whether dual enrollment credits are accepted by universities in other states, the landscape becomes a bit more random. Many publicly-funded state colleges and universities will likely accept dual enrollment credits from another state as long as the credits are listed on a transcript from an accredited community college or university. Universities in Colorado, therefore, will accept credits from Florida, as long as they are academic in nature and the student has earned a grade of C- or above. However, a receiving university would review exactly which courses would be transferred and how they would be counted towards the degree only after the student has applied and been accepted.  Most universities operate in this way:  they tell you that “generally speaking,” courses are easily transferred, but they don’t give any specifics until after you are enrolled. Colleges make a detailed determination of how the credits will be applied to your Bachelors degree.

Part of the reason for this is that dual enrollment credits may be counted differently depending on the major you pursue. For example, your dual enrollment college algebra course might not count toward your math requirements for an engineering degree. However, it might count as an elective if you are an art history major. Nevertheless, it almost always benefits a student to collect dual enrollment credits as a way to reduce the cost of college. Also, it may decrease the time to earn a degree. If, for example, all the courses a student takes in her junior and senior years of high school are classified as dual enrollment, then effectively that student conceivably could enter as a first semester JUNIOR in college. However, this depends on where the credits are and how they conform to the university’s graduation and major requirements.

Readers should be aware, therefore, that different states have different rules about how they handle dual enrollment credits from out-of-state students. Do not assume that every dual enrollment credit will be automatically transferred. As with everything in the world of college admissions, you need to do the research to find the answers you need. Policies like this shift all the time, and you need to verify what your desired universities will do with those dual enrollment credits.

Do Dual Enrollment Credits Transfer to Private Universities?

Private colleges are a different matter, however. As private entities, they are free to establish their own transfer criteria. Here again, it is best to check in advance of applying what the college’s policy toward dual enrollment credits will be. Some will be happy to transfer the courses in, as long as their college offers an equivalent course. Others may require a grade of B or better to transfer. And some may not transfer any of your dual enrollment courses at all. Some of the more selective colleges may use dual enrollment credits only to waive prerequisites or for placement purposes.

One thing is clear, however: colleges and universities of all types smile upon applicants who have completed dual enrollment courses. These courses demonstrate the ability to do college-level work, and they send the signal to admissions offices that this student is likely to succeed in college–because they have been challenged in college-level curricula.

A Student Discusses the Value of Dual Enrollment Classes

Over the years, students have read our blog and written to share their own experiences and insights. A young woman who attended the College of William and Mary read this post a while back and took the time to write to advocate for dual enrollment courses. She attended a high school in Virginia and then enrolled at the selective, public liberal arts college in that state. It’s worth quoting this letter in full, because it speaks to the priorities and choices students face as they choose the right path for themselves. There is no right and wrong answer to the question, “which is better, an AP course or dual enrollment classes?”.  Each student and family must make decide what makes the most sense given their values, priorities, and preferences. 

So thank you, Sarah, for writing in with your opinion, and we’re happy to share it below.

As a current college student, I vouch for the dual enrollment option when high school students are looking through their course options. I went to a very small, rural high school in Virginia, and had the opportunity to take DE credit classes through local community colleges. I finished at the top of my class and I am currently an academic junior at the College of William and Mary.

During my freshman year in college, I came to find that a majority of my friends took AP classes, got an A or a high B in the class, but couldn’t get a 4 or 5 on their AP exam (mind you, these students came from great private and public high schools all over the country, each with its own long-standing AP track). William and Mary requires a score of 4 or 5 to get credit from an AP course. I can’t tell you how many of my friends got burned by taking AP. All 39 of my dual enrollment credits transferred and I am graduating in 3 years.

A lot of really great colleges and universities require high AP scores. So it is very important to do your research on the school you wish to attend. Taking an AP class may look good on a transcript. But how good will it look when the student doesn’t pass the exam with the necessary score? I feel like AP is put up on this pedestal as being the best of the best. However, there is nothing wrong with dual enrollment classes, and taking DE doesn’t mean that one could not handle the supposed “harder” AP course load. I can assure you, the classes I took through my governor’s school were more than challenging.

Best of luck,

Sarah

Do you need help with the college admissions process?

If you have questions about dual enrollment and the college admissions process, please reach out with any questions. The college prep experts at Great College Advice have a great deal of experience in working with students going down the dual enrollment course path. Give us a call or contact us on our website. We’d be delighted to help you map your college journey.

Since 2007, the expert team of college admissions consultants at Great College Advice has provided comprehensive guidance to thousands of students from across the United States and over 45 countries across the world. Great College Advice has offices in Colorado, New Jersey, Chicago, North Carolina and Massachusetts.   In addition to our one-on-one counseling, Great College Advice extends its support through one of the most active and resource-rich Facebook Groups for college-bound students and their families: College Admissions Experts. With over 100,000 members—students, parents, and experienced counselors—this vibrant forum offers peer support and expert advice like no other. 

The post What is Dual Enrollment? first appeared on Great College Advice.

Here’s what she said:

Mark,

As a current college student, I vouch for the dual enrollment option when high school students are looking through their course options. I went to a very small, rural high school in Virginia, and had the opportunity to take DE credit classes through local community colleges. I finished at the top of my class and I am currently an academic junior at the College of William and Mary.

During my freshman year in college, I came to find that a majority of my friends took AP classes, got an A or a high B in the class. But couldn’t get a 4 or 5 on their AP exam (mind you, these students came from great private and public high schools all over the country, each with its own long standing AP track). William and Mary require a score of 4 or 5 to get credit from an AP course. I can’t tell you how many of my friends got burned by taking AP. All 39 of my dual enrollment credits transferred and I am graduating in 3 years.

A lot of really great colleges and universities require high AP scores. So it is very important to do your research on the school you wish to attend. Taking an AP class may look good on a transcript. But how good will it look when the student doesn’t pass the exam with the necessary score? I feel like AP is put up on this pedestal as being the best of the best. However, there is nothing wrong with dual enrollment classes, and taking DE doesn’t mean that one could not handle the supposed “harder” AP course load. I can assure you, the classes I took through my governor’s school were more than challenging.

Best of luck,

Sarah

So you heard it here first: if you want to prepare for a good college and save lots of money. Give serious consideration to the dual enrollment options at your local community college. You may thank me later!

Mark Montgomery
Educational Consultant

The post Value of Dual Enrollment Courses first appeared on Great College Advice.

Conventional wisdom holds that AP courses are excellent preparation for college. They are considered to be rigorous. The general idea is that they are the equivalent of college-level, introductory survey courses, and often colleges will offer credit or advanced standing for those who perform well in them. And in many respects this is all true. But it’s also true that not all students should take loads of AP courses, and in some contexts, an AP courses may not be all that rigorous or helpful preparation for college. Like everything in the college admissions process, there are no black and white truths. Every decision a student makes has to be taken within the student’s own context.

Let’s look at the value of the AP program and the reasons for its rapid adoption across the United States. Later we’ll look at some of the downsides of the program, as well as some of the other options that students might to consider instead of the AP program.

AP courses are a de facto national college prep curriculum

Globally, the United States is unlike any other when it comes to public education. We have no national curriculum. The authority for education is left to the 50 states and, more unusually, to the 14,000 some odd school districts.  These districts set policies, establish curriculum, and provide the majority of funding for local public schools. This is what we call “local control” of our schools. Whatever one’s thoughts on the wisdom of this arrangement (and believe me, I have a lot of thoughts), the fact is that each district is allowed to set its own curriculum, its own standards, and its own educational policies.

The result is that these 14,000 districts and 50 states don’t agree on much (it turns out that letting legislatures and politicians decide what should be taught–or not taught–in our schools becomes a political feeding frenzy). There is no national curriculum. There are no national benchmarks for what students are supposed to learn. There is no standard for what students must know and be able to do to pass an an individual class, or even to graduation from high school.

This makes it difficult for colleges and universities to compare one student with another. Since no two students may follow the same curriculum or be assumed to acquire the same knowledge, colleges must come up with their own flexible, subjective (universities use the nicer, more positive term of “holistic”) system for evaluating candidates with wildly different credentials.

Enter the College Board with its structured curricula and college-level examinations to fill the void.  Since our state and national governments cannot agree on a national curriculum, private enterprise has created one for us.

Today, the College Board offers this “national curriculum” in every major subject area taught in US high schools. It offers courses in English (2), math (6), history and the social sciences (9), natural science (7, including 4 different courses in physics), the arts (6), and a capstone program with its seminar and research courses. Other courses are being developed and introduced, including one on African-American history that has caused some political controversy.

AP tests are good college admission–if you have a high score

The value of the AP tests is quite clear. The AP tests are normed.  In other words, the score that one student gets in one place is considered to have performed to the same standards. The AP tests (as well as the SAT and ACT) are the very definition of “standardized tests”.

In the the holistic (or subjective) realm of college admissions, these tests provide some sort of way to compare students across the country and across the world.  Thus, those students with scores of 5 on the AP US History test will be judged to have masters the content from the AP US History curriculum, while those who score a 2 or 1 on the same test will be judged to have failed to masted that content. In that way, the high performing students will be considered more desirable by admissions officers.

AP courses in college admission

The syllabi for the AP program’s many course offerings are available for free for anyone who wants them. The College Board wants these courses to be accessible to all (the College Board makes its money by charging for the exams, not by the distribution of the curriculum or syllabi).

The good thing about these courses is that they are relatively rigorous.  The syllabi make clear what should be taught (and learned) in the courses, and the content of the exams consistently mirrors what is supposed to be taught (and learned) in the classroom.

The Advanced Placement program, created by the College Board, does have its critics who decry the amount of rote memorization or brute calculation that the exams tend to emphasize. I do not necessarily disagree with these critiques. For today’s purposes, however, I’m going to set aside these criticisms. Generally speaking, the transparency of the curricula demonstrate that the courses expect a fairly high level of intellectual engagement.

This is why many, many colleges and universities across the country offer “advanced placement” credits for students who perform well on the exams. Universities consider AP courses to be “college level” and therefore reward students to take them by offering credits toward their college diplomas.

The problem is that while the exams are consistent from one place to another, the courses themselves are not. In some places, the teachers are unprepared to teach the rigorous content of the AP courses.  For example, at an poorly-resourced urban school in the Denver area, nearly 75% of the teachers–every year–are first year teachers.  These freshly minted teachers are barely older than the high school students themselves, and may not have the content knowledge themselves to teach these rigorous courses, and they are unlikely to have any specialized training in delivering AP curricula or preparing students for the examinations.

In other wealthy, suburban locations like Lexington, Massachusetts, or Boulder, Colorado, teachers are generally more senior, more highly paid, and better prepared with advanced degrees in their content areas. These teachers also have access to professional development funds to help them learn how to deliver the AP curriculum and help kids cram for the tests.

“Access” to AP courses does not mean that the AP courses are good for college admission

Statistics from North Carolina further illustrate the disconnect between the AP courses and success on the AP tests.  North Carolina loves the AP program. In fact, the state pays for the administration of AP tests so that all students in North Carolina have access to a rigorous curriculum. But access, by itself, does not create a pathway to success. Even though North Carolina’s AP pass rate has increased over the past five years to 59.2% in 2022, it is still no better than the national pass rate of 60.2%.

Think about that for a second.

Nationwide, fully 40% of the students who attempt an AP exam fail it, even though–presumably–the students taking the class are prepared for a a college preparatory curriculum.

It’s great that more and more kids have access to rigorous AP courses, and certainly would not want to deny any child who wanted to challenge herself to enroll in a rigorous, college-level AP course. But if she enrolls, don’t we have a responsibility to support that student so she can perform well on the test, too?

Why do so many students fail AP tests?

I work on a pro bono basis for several students at an inner-city high school in Denver. One of my students is ranked second in her class of over 500 students. Academically, she is a stand-out. She is beloved by administrators, teachers, and peers.

She has been singled out as a rare talent in a school with more than its fair share of problems. She is enrolled in AP classes. And she even got to take one during her sophomore year. She received a score of 1 out of 5 on the AP test. How did that happen?

Perhaps students at this school are simply not as bright as the students across town in the wealthy suburbs, where it’s relatively routine for students to score 4 or 5 on the same test. Perhaps this poor girl simply doesn’t have the same preparation, so there is no way she—or any of her peers at this school—could perform on the same level as her peers across the city boundary.

Or is it the teacher? Is it that the teacher of this class in this school does not have the content expertise or the teaching skills to push the students hard enough and far enough to pass the test? How many inner-city high schools are full of talented, passionate teachers like Jaime Escalante, who “stand and deliver” advanced calculus to black and brown students? (Answer: precious few: this is one of those schools in which the overwhelming majority of teachers are in their first year of teaching!)

Or, is this young girl’s failure on the AP test a symptom of something more insidious at work in our educational system? It is simply the culture of low expectations that allows us to offer a course with an AP label, and then neglect to push poorer, browner students in the same way we push their richer, whiter peers?

It’s complicated. But there is no way to escape the disconnect between providing “access” to Advanced Placement and providing the adequate resources to help students pass them. It’s great that North Carolina pays for the administration of the AP tests. But if we want to see pass rates go up, we’d have to examine how North Carolina is creating a system in which the statewide pass rates on AP exams surpass the national average.

How can you find out if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission at your school?

Putting aside these real issues of educational equity, how can students and their families decide whether an AP course is good for college admission? But for now, I want to focus on what parents can and should be asking about their students’ AP courses.

Essentially, you need to be asking about pass rates. The fact that the AP course is not enough for it to be a “good” course. An AP course in which a high proportion of enrolled students fails the exam is not going to be good for those students when it comes time for college admission. Of course, the rigor of the AP course may be the the best way for the student to access a rigorous curriculum.

Parents should value the availability of AP courses in their schools. But parents should also be digging deeper.

Parents should be asking administrators and teachers some better, tougher questions about those AP courses.

What can I ask my school to learn if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission?

Basically, you’re trying to find out how well your school supports the AP program and how well it prepares students enrolled in the AP program for success on the nationally-normed examinations.  Here are some questions you might ask of administrators and teachers at your high school.

1. How long has this course been taught in this school?
2. How long has this teacher been teaching this course?
3. Has the teacher received special training to teach this course? If so, what kind of training, and from whom?
4. Are students who take the course required to sit for the AP exam? If not, why not?
5. What percentage of those who take the course attempt the test?
6. What is the teacher’s pass rate? If the teacher taught the course at a different school, what was his or her pass rate there?
7. Of those who passed, how many received a 4 or 5 on the test?
8. Are the teacher’s grades for the course related, in any way, to anticipated performance on the AP test?
9. What sort of assessments does the teacher use in the course? How similar are those assessments to the actual AP tests?
10. How much is writing emphasized in this AP course? (Many of the tests require substantial writing, not just multiple choice questions.)

These sorts of questions will help you better assess the value of a particular AP course at a particular school.

If you find that the answers to these questions are unsatisfactory, there might actually be better options for your college-bound student. Perhaps one of the best is to seek out dual enrollment options at a local college or community college, where your student can take a bona fide college course—at no cost in most states—and be guaranteed of receiving college credit if the student passes the course. (Check out this post for more comparisons between the AP, IB, and dual enrollment options.)

As with most everything else in this world, you cannot judge something merely by its label. The AP brand is generally pretty good. But you’d better look carefully at your school’s ability to help students succeed in those courses before you encourage your student to sign up.

Still wondering if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission in your particular circumstances?

The decision about whether to take AP courses–how many and which ones–is a big one for many students on the road to college admission. The professional college counselors at Great College Advice help individuals students make these decisions. We help you decide whether AP courses are going to be better for you than other options, like dual enrollment opportunities. We help you decide which AP courses would be best for you to take, and which ones you may not need. We want to help you get into college, and we also want you to take full advantage of all your educational opportunities while in high school. The AP program is a great way to challenge yourself and prepare for college. But as you enroll in those courses, you need to be sure that you have the tools to succeed–not only in the course but on those dreaded exams.  Give us a call or contact us online if you’d like to discuss your personalized plan toward college success.  We’d be happy to chat with you.

Mark Montgomery
Independent College Counseling

The post Are AP Courses Good for Admission? first appeared on Great College Advice.

Conventional wisdom holds that AP courses are excellent preparation for college. They are considered to be rigorous. The general idea is that they are the equivalent of college-level, introductory survey courses, and often colleges will offer credit or advanced standing for those who perform well in them. And in many respects this is all true. But it’s also true that not all students should take loads of AP courses, and in some contexts, an AP courses may not be all that rigorous or helpful preparation for college. Like everything in the college admissions process, there are no black and white truths. Every decision a student makes has to be taken within the student’s own context.

Let’s look at the value of the AP program and the reasons for its rapid adoption across the United States. Later we’ll look at some of the downsides of the program, as well as some of the other options that students might to consider instead of the AP program.

AP courses are a de facto national college prep curriculum

Globally, the United States is unlike any other when it comes to public education. We have no national curriculum. The authority for education is left to the 50 states and, more unusually, to the 14,000 some odd school districts.  These districts set policies, establish curriculum, and provide the majority of funding for local public schools. This is what we call “local control” of our schools. Whatever one’s thoughts on the wisdom of this arrangement (and believe me, I have a lot of thoughts), the fact is that each district is allowed to set its own curriculum, its own standards, and its own educational policies.

The result is that these 14,000 districts and 50 states don’t agree on much (it turns out that letting legislatures and politicians decide what should be taught–or not taught–in our schools becomes a political feeding frenzy). There is no national curriculum. There are no national benchmarks for what students are supposed to learn. There is no standard for what students must know and be able to do to pass an an individual class, or even to graduation from high school.

This makes it difficult for colleges and universities to compare one student with another. Since no two students may follow the same curriculum or be assumed to acquire the same knowledge, colleges must come up with their own flexible, subjective (universities use the nicer, more positive term of “holistic”) system for evaluating candidates with wildly different credentials.

Enter the College Board with its structured curricula and college-level examinations to fill the void.  Since our state and national governments cannot agree on a national curriculum, private enterprise has created one for us.

Today, the College Board offers this “national curriculum” in every major subject area taught in US high schools. It offers courses in English (2), math (6), history and the social sciences (9), natural science (7, including 4 different courses in physics), the arts (6), and a capstone program with its seminar and research courses. Other courses are being developed and introduced, including one on African-American history that has caused some political controversy.

AP tests are good college admission–if you have a high score

The value of the AP tests is quite clear. The AP tests are normed.  In other words, the score that one student gets in one place is considered to have performed to the same standards. The AP tests (as well as the SAT and ACT) are the very definition of “standardized tests”.

In the the holistic (or subjective) realm of college admissions, these tests provide some sort of way to compare students across the country and across the world.  Thus, those students with scores of 5 on the AP US History test will be judged to have masters the content from the AP US History curriculum, while those who score a 2 or 1 on the same test will be judged to have failed to masted that content. In that way, the high performing students will be considered more desirable by admissions officers.

AP courses in college admission

The syllabi for the AP program’s many course offerings are available for free for anyone who wants them. The College Board wants these courses to be accessible to all (the College Board makes its money by charging for the exams, not by the distribution of the curriculum or syllabi).

The good thing about these courses is that they are relatively rigorous.  The syllabi make clear what should be taught (and learned) in the courses, and the content of the exams consistently mirrors what is supposed to be taught (and learned) in the classroom.

The Advanced Placement program, created by the College Board, does have its critics who decry the amount of rote memorization or brute calculation that the exams tend to emphasize. I do not necessarily disagree with these critiques. For today’s purposes, however, I’m going to set aside these criticisms. Generally speaking, the transparency of the curricula demonstrate that the courses expect a fairly high level of intellectual engagement.

This is why many, many colleges and universities across the country offer “advanced placement” credits for students who perform well on the exams. Universities consider AP courses to be “college level” and therefore reward students to take them by offering credits toward their college diplomas.

The problem is that while the exams are consistent from one place to another, the courses themselves are not. In some places, the teachers are unprepared to teach the rigorous content of the AP courses.  For example, at an poorly-resourced urban school in the Denver area, nearly 75% of the teachers–every year–are first year teachers.  These freshly minted teachers are barely older than the high school students themselves, and may not have the content knowledge themselves to teach these rigorous courses, and they are unlikely to have any specialized training in delivering AP curricula or preparing students for the examinations.

In other wealthy, suburban locations like Lexington, Massachusetts, or Boulder, Colorado, teachers are generally more senior, more highly paid, and better prepared with advanced degrees in their content areas. These teachers also have access to professional development funds to help them learn how to deliver the AP curriculum and help kids cram for the tests.

“Access” to AP courses does not mean that the AP courses are good for college admission

Statistics from North Carolina further illustrate the disconnect between the AP courses and success on the AP tests.  North Carolina loves the AP program. In fact, the state pays for the administration of AP tests so that all students in North Carolina have access to a rigorous curriculum. But access, by itself, does not create a pathway to success. Even though North Carolina’s AP pass rate has increased over the past five years to 59.2% in 2022, it is still no better than the national pass rate of 60.2%.

Think about that for a second.

Nationwide, fully 40% of the students who attempt an AP exam fail it, even though–presumably–the students taking the class are prepared for a a college preparatory curriculum.

It’s great that more and more kids have access to rigorous AP courses, and certainly would not want to deny any child who wanted to challenge herself to enroll in a rigorous, college-level AP course. But if she enrolls, don’t we have a responsibility to support that student so she can perform well on the test, too?

Why do so many students fail AP tests?

I work on a pro bono basis for several students at an inner-city high school in Denver. One of my students is ranked second in her class of over 500 students. Academically, she is a stand-out. She is beloved by administrators, teachers, and peers.

She has been singled out as a rare talent in a school with more than its fair share of problems. She is enrolled in AP classes. And she even got to take one during her sophomore year. She received a score of 1 out of 5 on the AP test. How did that happen?

Perhaps students at this school are simply not as bright as the students across town in the wealthy suburbs, where it’s relatively routine for students to score 4 or 5 on the same test. Perhaps this poor girl simply doesn’t have the same preparation, so there is no way she—or any of her peers at this school—could perform on the same level as her peers across the city boundary.

Or is it the teacher? Is it that the teacher of this class in this school does not have the content expertise or the teaching skills to push the students hard enough and far enough to pass the test? How many inner-city high schools are full of talented, passionate teachers like Jaime Escalante, who “stand and deliver” advanced calculus to black and brown students? (Answer: precious few: this is one of those schools in which the overwhelming majority of teachers are in their first year of teaching!)

Or, is this young girl’s failure on the AP test a symptom of something more insidious at work in our educational system? It is simply the culture of low expectations that allows us to offer a course with an AP label, and then neglect to push poorer, browner students in the same way we push their richer, whiter peers?

It’s complicated. But there is no way to escape the disconnect between providing “access” to Advanced Placement and providing the adequate resources to help students pass them. It’s great that North Carolina pays for the administration of the AP tests. But if we want to see pass rates go up, we’d have to examine how North Carolina is creating a system in which the statewide pass rates on AP exams surpass the national average.

How can you find out if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission at your school?

Putting aside these real issues of educational equity, how can students and their families decide whether an AP course is good for college admission? But for now, I want to focus on what parents can and should be asking about their students’ AP courses.

Essentially, you need to be asking about pass rates. The fact that the AP course is not enough for it to be a “good” course. An AP course in which a high proportion of enrolled students fails the exam is not going to be good for those students when it comes time for college admission. Of course, the rigor of the AP course may be the the best way for the student to access a rigorous curriculum.

Parents should value the availability of AP courses in their schools. But parents should also be digging deeper.

Parents should be asking administrators and teachers some better, tougher questions about those AP courses.

What can I ask my school to learn if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission?

Basically, you’re trying to find out how well your school supports the AP program and how well it prepares students enrolled in the AP program for success on the nationally-normed examinations.  Here are some questions you might ask of administrators and teachers at your high school.

1. How long has this course been taught in this school?
2. How long has this teacher been teaching this course?
3. Has the teacher received special training to teach this course? If so, what kind of training, and from whom?
4. Are students who take the course required to sit for the AP exam? If not, why not?
5. What percentage of those who take the course attempt the test?
6. What is the teacher’s pass rate? If the teacher taught the course at a different school, what was his or her pass rate there?
7. Of those who passed, how many received a 4 or 5 on the test?
8. Are the teacher’s grades for the course related, in any way, to anticipated performance on the AP test?
9. What sort of assessments does the teacher use in the course? How similar are those assessments to the actual AP tests?
10. How much is writing emphasized in this AP course? (Many of the tests require substantial writing, not just multiple choice questions.)

These sorts of questions will help you better assess the value of a particular AP course at a particular school.

If you find that the answers to these questions are unsatisfactory, there might actually be better options for your college-bound student. Perhaps one of the best is to seek out dual enrollment options at a local college or community college, where your student can take a bona fide college course—at no cost in most states—and be guaranteed of receiving college credit if the student passes the course. (Check out this post for more comparisons between the AP, IB, and dual enrollment options.)

As with most everything else in this world, you cannot judge something merely by its label. The AP brand is generally pretty good. But you’d better look carefully at your school’s ability to help students succeed in those courses before you encourage your student to sign up.

Still wondering if Advanced Placement courses are good for college admission in your particular circumstances?

The decision about whether to take AP courses–how many and which ones–is a big one for many students on the road to college admission. The professional college counselors at Great College Advice help individuals students make these decisions. We help you decide whether AP courses are going to be better for you than other options, like dual enrollment opportunities. We help you decide which AP courses would be best for you to take, and which ones you may not need. We want to help you get into college, and we also want you to take full advantage of all your educational opportunities while in high school. The AP program is a great way to challenge yourself and prepare for college. But as you enroll in those courses, you need to be sure that you have the tools to succeed–not only in the course but on those dreaded exams.  Give us a call or contact us online if you’d like to discuss your personalized plan toward college success.  We’d be happy to chat with you.

Mark Montgomery
Independent College Counseling

The post Advanced Placement Courses Good for College Admission? first appeared on Great College Advice.