A reader recently wrote in to ask our opinion about dual enrollment courses. She wanted to compare them to the Advanced Placement (AP) options at her son’s school. The question came from a post we wrote analyzing AP courses in the college admissions process. Since she is not the only one to pose the question, let’s dive into the differences of dual enrollment and AP programs and compare them as best we can–with an eye to their relative importance in college admissions. Here is why AP courses (and the IB curriculum) are preferred by selective universities:

Also, see our blog post on What is Dual Enrollment? and the benefits of dual enrollment classes.

Advantages of Dual Enrollment

The advantages of dual enrollment courses in college admissions include:

• High schools can offer honors-level courses without hiring new staff
• Districts can save money by partnering with community colleges
• Parents can save on college tuition because these college credits are transferable to most state universities
• Students demonstrate that they can handle college-level work
• Students who doubt their own abilities to succeed in college experience success and are more likely to apply to college–and eventually graduate
• Community colleges and 4-year institutions build a pipeline of students moving from high school to college
• State governments and local governments appreciate the collaboration between K-12 and higher education

Which is Better: AP or Dual Enrollment for college prep? 

The answer is: it depends.

First, some schools are unable to offer both AP and dual enrollment courses. In fact, rural high schools are much more likely to rely on dual enrollment courses than AP, because dual enrollment is less expensive to the school district–especially if there is not enough demand to fill a complete AP course. But, International Baccalaureate, or IB programs are rare because this program is both expensive and affects the entire curriculum offerings at a school that adopts the program. So if there is no AP or IB option in your school, you should definitely consider dual enrollment options. (If you want to dig into whether you should select an AP or IB curriculum, check out this post that compares the IB and AP programs.)

Second, if your goal is to reduce the costs of attending a state university, dual enrollment credits are a guaranteed discount. Because states automatically require these courses to transfer, any DE course you take will reduce the number of credits you must complete (and pay for!) while in college. As long you dually enroll in a college prep course and you get a C- or better, you get the college credit.

The AP tests and the IB diploma program, by contrast, come with high-stakes tests:  take the course and then take the test. If you pass an AP test with a score of 3, 4, or 5, you might get college credit. The amount of credit would depend on the policy in place at a particular college or university.  But note that your grade in the AP course has no bearing on whether you get college credit.  The credit you receive depends on your score on the exam.  Thus you could get an A+ in your AP US History class, but get a 2 on the test–in which was you would receive no credit anywhere (well, you’d get the high school credit that leads to your high school diploma, but it would not give you any benefit once you arrive at college). 

The Benefit of IB and AP Exam Standardized Testing

IB and AP exams are standardized. They are normed tests. Thus, presumably, a score of 5 on the AP Chemistry means the same thing, no matter whether student attended a private school in Connecticut, a rural public school in Alabama, or an international school in Uruguay.  Similarly, a perfect 7 on the IB English A exam would be considered the same no matter where in the world the student attended secondary school. 

By contrast, an A in that dual enrollment chemistry class might or might not be the educational equivalent of a chemistry class in another location. Some high schools have higher standards than others, some community colleges have higher standards than others, and some individual teachers have higher standards than others (a fact that every high school student everywhere understands). Dual enrollment courses are not standardized. There is no “norm.” An A in one place could be different from an A in another.  

AP or Dual Enrollment for college prep? Highly selective universities tend to prefer IB and AP over dual enrollment

Thus, highly selective universities in the United States tend to favor AP and IB exam results over dual enrollment credits because they are standardized. Not only are the highly selective less likely to grant you the credits you receive in dual enrollment courses, they are more likely to discount the value of those courses, especially if you had the opportunity to take those rigorous AP or IB courses in your school or community. 

Third, if your school has a strong AP program that has a history of success in helping students earn 4s and 5s on the AP test, you might want to consider the AP courses if you plan to attend a highly selective college or university. The reason is this: the AP test is a demonstration of proficiency and competence in a subject matter.

While credit is a demonstration that you did what the teacher or professor required of you, the AP test is a nationally-normed test (and the IB is globally-normed). A score of 5 on an AP test communicates that are you a good student who can handle college-level work, that you are capable of performing well on cumulative examinations, and that you have demonstrated a high degree of mastery of the subject matter. This is why selective colleges and universities strongly prefer AP and IB results over grades in dual enrollment courses.

See our blog post discussing whether to take AP or IB classes in high school.

So Should You Take an AP or Dual Enrollment for college prep?

Again, it depends. Remember that not every student has a choice, as not every school offers AP courses while most public high schools are able to offer dual enrollment options. 

If your goal is to reduce the cost of your college education and you plan to go to a public university in-state, there is no doubt that dual enrollment options are going to save you money and reduce the time necessary to earn your college degree. For the vast majority of Americans, the dual enrollment option is the smartest choice.  No high stakes exams.  No doubts as to the ability to transfer credits to college. Take those dual enrollment courses, get good grades, and get through college more quickly and more cheaply.

If you want to attend one of the most selective colleges and universities in the United States–and your high school offers them–then take the AP or IB courses on offer.  They are considered by admissions offers at these universities to be more rigorous, and the cumulative examinations at the end of the course demonstrate clearly how you stack up against other students taking the same subject across the country (or across the world). 

What should I do if I don’t have a good AP teacher?

Standardized tests, despite their flaws, do help admissions officers compare apples to apples. They help to separate grades from proficiency. High scores provide external verification that the grades a student earns are an expression of content mastery. 

However, as we have noted, not all teachers are the same. The AP curriculum is challenging and rigorous. Not every teacher is either trained or experienced in delivering this curriculum. For example, there is a low-performing high school nearby where nearly 80% of the teachers are first-year teachers–every year! AP courses at this school are being taught by very, very inexperienced teachers. 

Therefore if you are considering AP courses offered at your school, ask questions and do some investigating. Some schools have very low pass rates on the AP exams. Even students who get high grades in their AP courses core only 1 or 2 on the exams. (In other words, these students fail and will absolutely not receive any college credit, nor will they be able to brag about their high scores on their college applications). 

Just because a course is labeled AP does not mean that it is a good course. Nor does the label mean that a student will achieve the level of mastery required to score a 5 on the AP exam. Many, many schools across the country offer AP courses that are very poorly taught. Many teachers simply do not have the content background or pedagogical skills to prepare students for these rigorous exams.

A Student Vouches for the Value of Dual Enrollment Courses

Over the years, students have read our blog and written to share their own experiences and insights. A young woman who attended the College of William and Mary read this post a while back and took the time to write to advocate for dual enrollment courses. She attended a high school in Virginia and then enrolled at the selective, public liberal arts college in that state. It’s worth quoting this letter in full, because it speaks to the priorities and choices students face as they choose the right path for themselves. There is no right and wrong answer to the question, “which is better, an AP course or dual enrollment classes?”.  Each student and family must make decide what makes the most sense given their values, priorities, and preferences. 

So thank you, Sarah, for writing in with your opinion, and we’re happy to share it below.

As a current college student, I vouch for the dual enrollment option when high school students are looking through their course options. I went to a very small, rural high school in Virginia, and had the opportunity to take DE credit classes through local community colleges. I finished at the top of my class and I am currently an academic junior at the College of William and Mary.

During my freshman year in college, I came to find that a majority of my friends took AP classes, got an A or a high B in the class, but couldn’t get a 4 or 5 on their AP exam (mind you, these students came from great private and public high schools all over the country, each with its own long-standing AP track). William and Mary requires a score of 4 or 5 to get credit from an AP course. I can’t tell you how many of my friends got burned by taking AP. All 39 of my dual enrollment credits transferred and I am graduating in 3 years.

A lot of really great colleges and universities require high AP scores. So it is very important to do your research on the school you wish to attend. Taking an AP class may look good on a transcript. But how good will it look when the student doesn’t pass the exam with the necessary score? I feel like AP is put up on this pedestal as being the best of the best. However, there is nothing wrong with dual enrollment classes, and taking DE doesn’t mean that one could not handle the supposed “harder” AP course load. I can assure you, the classes I took through my governor’s school were more than challenging.

Best of luck,

Sarah

Do you need help with the college admissions process?

If you have the option of choosing an AP course or dual enrollment, the choice can be difficult. The path you choose has a huge impact on your academic life in high school, and can also affect your extracurricular life. So it’s important to choose wisely. 

The college prep experts at Great College Advice have loads of experience in guiding students in this big decision. We can help by asking questions to elicit your true feelings and your rational priorities. Either of these curricular programs can be pathways to college success. Both are respected by college admissions officers. But which is right for you?

If you need to talk through these priorities and preferences, give us a call or contact us on our website. We’d be delighted to help you map your college journey.

Since 2007, the expert team of college admissions consultants at Great College Advice has provided comprehensive guidance to thousands of students from across the United States and over 45 countries across the world. Great College Advice has offices in Colorado, New Jersey, Chicago, North Carolina and Massachusetts.  

In addition to our one-on-one counseling, Great College Advice extends its support through one of the most active and resource-rich Facebook Groups for college-bound students and their families: College Admissions Experts. With over 100,000 members—students, parents, and experienced counselors—this vibrant forum offers peer support and expert advice like no other. 

The post AP or Dual Enrollment for College Prep? first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

Which is better, Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB)? Do colleges find one more impressive over the other?

Both the AP and IB programs are equally valuable. The exams associated with those courses provide an external measure of quality. Any student who does well on the end-of-course assessments associated with either the AP or IB program can genuinely claim to have done college work in a high school setting.

Do selective colleges prefer AP or IB?

Colleges like both AP and IB. Both programs represent tough curricular requirements. But in the end, it’s all about the student’s performance. Did they perform at the very top of the scale for either program? Did they pass the independently administered exams with flying colors? If so, colleges will be very interested in those students, regardless of the AP or IB label.

AP and IB program structures are different

The structures of the two programs are very different, however. Think of AP and IB this way. AP is a smorgasbord: pick the courses you want, leave behind those that tempt you less. IB, by contrast, is a “prix fixe” menu: you get all or nothing. There is a range of choice within IB, but the entire high school curriculum is dictated by those initial choices.

The fact is that highly competitive AP students are taking 10+ AP courses and doing well on the exams (scores of 4 or 5 out of five possible points). Likewise, highly competitive IB students are not only taking the IB courses but are scoring 5, 6, or 7s (out of seven) on the diploma tests. However, there are also plenty of students who take lots of AP courses who do not do well on the exams (many do not even take them!). Similarly, there are students in IB programs who are unlikely to fulfill all the requirements of the IB diploma.

How to choose AP or IB

For some students, the choice between AP or IB will be simple. Their high school may offer one or the other but not both. So if you don’t really have a choice, embrace the curriculum offered by your school. Also commit to doing the best possible job you can in that curriculum.

Some students may be considering a choice between two high schools. One that offers the AP and one that offers the IB. In this case, consider your own preferences. Do you want a bit more freedom to accelerate your learning in areas that interest you most? Do you want to double up in some subjects in which you perform extremely well, while dialing back on those that are not your cup of tea? If so, you may want to choose the Advanced Placement program. So, that you can pick and choose the AP courses that suit you best.

About IB

Consider the IB if you tend to like a wide variety of subjects and perform well in all of them. Similarly, consider the IB if you would like to focus in on a particular subject during the two-year diploma program. Some students find that they get more out of their IB chemistry or physics courses. For example, because they dive more deeply into the subject over two years than they can during a one-year AP course.

IB has fewer choices

Unlike the AP program, IB is more of a “prix fixe” or “fixed menu” approach to secondary education. You have six different slots to fill in the curriculum, and you have to choose courses that fill those particular slots.  For example, you must choose from among a narrow range of math courses to fill the “math” slot.  You have a few choices to fill the science slot–and remember, you will study the same science for both 11th and 12th grade. You have to fill the “language A slot” with your mother tongue, and you fill the “language B” slot with a second language at a narrow range of levels. There is a “history/social science slot, too:  the range of courses offered by the IB globally is relatively broad but the offerings at your school are likely to be narrowed down to two to four choices. And then there is the “open” slot, which can be either an arts course (drama, music, studio art), a second science course (for those STEM-oriented students), or maybe a second social sciences course.  Again, you make these selections for the entirety of your last two years of secondary school. 

While the IB program worldwide does offer quite a few different courses and curricular options, the reality is that in US public high schools and in the private schools that offer the IB, the range of curricular choices can be quite narrow. For example, there are usually only three different choices for courses in the sciences. Most schools can offer only one or two foreign languages, and the offerings in the social sciences are likewise restricted. The reasons for this narrowness are primarily practical. Smaller IB programs don’t have the numbers of students to justify a wide variety of subjects in certain areas.

Economies of scale dictate the choices. For example, an IB program in a small private or international school may not have a large enough enrollment to offer a full range of courses in the social sciences or fine arts. So look carefully at what the school does (and doesn’t offer) before you sign up for that school.

About AP

If the IB is a fixed menu, then the AP is more of a buffet approach: choose the items you find most appetizing and make an academic meal of it. 

The AP program is not a full curriculum.  Rather it is a collection of rigorous high school syllabi that are presented to students who want to challenge themselves. The courses are then assessed according to a normed standard created by the College Board. Exams are corrected by individual subjects by groups of qualified AP teachers nationwide during a single week in the summer.  Thus, whether you attend school in a public school in Wyoming or a private school in Massachusetts, a score of 5 on the AP exam is considered a high achievement.  A 3 is a “passing score,” while 2s and 1s are considered failing.  

Thus it is possible, and not all that uncommon, for students to have lower grades in the AP course at their high school and then to ace the exam. It is more common, however, to get a high grade in the high school class and then fail the exam (more on this issue in a moment). 

With the AP program, students can choose to take as few or as many as they would like. High performing students in large suburban high schools will likely have the opportunity to take 10 or more. Some high schools allow students to take some AP courses as early as freshman year.

Similarly, students can focus their AP courses in subjects where they have relative strengths.  The STEM student could double down on science and math AP courses, while others may opt for more courses in the social sciences or languages.  

AP or IB? Extracurriculars and social considerations

One thing we have noticed over the years in working with students in both AP and IB programs is that IB students often have a harder time balancing extracurricular commitments and their social lives with the rigors of the IB diploma program.

The IB is an “all in” proposition: once you sign up for the diploma program, you have to complete all the requirements in all six courses plus Theory of Knowledge. Plus there are the additional requirements of the Extended Essay and CAS (“Creativity, Activity, Service”). In addition, there are a variety of assessments that keep the pressure on students to perform.

It can be very difficult for IB diploma students to focus on their extracurricular pursuits and still perform academically at the highest levels. Top athletes as well as those who excel in the performing arts sometimes struggle to balance all their commitments.

On the other hand, some students pursuing an IB program that is embedded in a large public high school can benefit from the camaraderie in the IB program. These students take virtually all of their classes together, and it is sometimes easier for students to create strong friendships with like-minded peers.

The cafeteria-style AP program, however, can be better for students who want to find a better balance. They can choose only those AP courses that interest them, and in which they feel the can (and want to!) succeed.

AP or IB? Choose the program that is the best fit for you

The question raised at the beginning of this post is about college: which curriculum would be better for college admission? The answer is both and neither. The question of which curriculum to choose (assuming you actually have a choice) is about shaping your high school experience.

The IB program is fundamentally a European high school experience. It was crafted in Europe to be a sort of curricular compromise. It is an amalgam of the British, French, and German secondary school curricula. And it is generally much more narrowly focused than the traditional high school experience in the United States.

The wide range of choice and flexibility of the Advanced Placement program is a product of American educational values. We recognize that no two students are identical. Each student has the ability to select the subjects and level of challenge that is right for him or her. Freedom to choose is at the heart of the program.

So if you do have a choice between AP and IB, don’t focus on which will give you a better shot at the Ivy League. Both will do the job as long as you perform at the highest level.

Rather, consider which curricular structure best suits your personality, learning style, preferences, and academic curiosities. And don’t neglect other factors, like your extracurricular priorities and your personality. These non-academic factors can be decisive.

AP or IB?  Case studies

Andrew:

This young man attended a small K-8 school for gifted and talented students. He was smart and attentive, and generally a pleasant young man with a lot of curiosity and academic ambition. He also was a little bit quirky and goofy. And he had a small, tight-knit group of friends who were as quirky and goofy as he. His primary extracurricular talent was piano. He could pound out a technically perfect and emotionally wrenching Beethoven sonata as if he were eating a peanut butter sandwich.

When choosing high schools, I encouraged him to consider the IB program at a school across town. There he would be among a small, tight-knit group of academically focused students. Here, he could thrive within the relatively stricter confines of the IB diploma program. He eventually went on to major in computer science at the University of Chicago (which itself was a great fit for this academically serious, quirky, creative young man).

Nick:

A strong musical and theater talent from a young age, Nick attended the same small K-8 school where he had many friends. As a socially gregarious youth, Nick had nevertheless outgrown the social limitations of his small school. He was itching for new challenges. Additionally, the school with the IB program (which he could have attended with Andrew) was relatively weak in its music and drama offerings. His other choice was a large public high school with a Grammy-award winning fine arts program with three different orchestras, four different bands, and six different choirs.

He could also take an enormous variety of AP courses, including music theory, and juggle the responsibility of taking on lead roles in the annual musical. After taking 12 AP courses and earning a 35 on the ACT, Nick won several performing arts and academic scholarships at highly selective liberal arts colleges. He majored in music with a minor in Spanish. He studied history in Spain and won a research scholarship to study music in Cuba.

Both Andrew and Nick chose the programs that would make their high school experiences comfortable and successful. They were able to enjoy high school and perform to the highest level. And they both succeeded in their own way. In both cases, it was not the particular curriculum that made them successful. Rather, it was the self-understanding of their personal priorities that enabled them to get the most out of their high school experience.

The importance of pass rates at your school

One thing parents (and students) ought to keep in mind as they look at schools and at individual teachers: ask about their pass rate. That is, ask what percentage of students enrolled in these programs take and pass (or get perfect scores) on the AP or IB assessments? The answer to this question will be a better indicator of program quality than the label. We have several clients who are getting very high grades in AP courses, but who will never be able to pass the AP exams. Their teachers are simply not up to the job of presenting such a demanding curriculum and helping students achieve to the standards set by that curriculum.

So to reiterate, both the AP and IB programs are excellent preparation for college, and the colleges seek out students to excel in either environment. Students and teachers should look beyond the labels to ask about the quality of the programs on offer. Just as we don’t judge books by their cover, we should not judge a program by its label.

Which should you do: AP or IB?

If you have the option of choosing one of these programs over another, the choice can be difficult. The path you choose has a huge impact on your academic life in high school, and can also affect your extracurricular life (not to mention the amount of sleep you get!). So it’s important to choose wisely. 

The college prep experts at Great College Advice have loads of experience in guiding students in this big decision. We can help by asking questions to elicit your true feelings and your rational priorities.  Either of these curricular programs can be pathways to college success. Both are respected by college admissions officers. But which is right for you?

If you need to talk through these priorities and preferences, give us a call or contact us on our website. We’d be delighted to help you map your college journey.

Since 2007, the expert team of college admissions consultants at Great College Advice has provided comprehensive guidance to thousands of students from across the United States and over 45 countries across the world. Great College Advice has offices in Colorado, New Jersey, Chicago, North Carolina and Massachusetts.  

In addition to our one-on-one counseling, Great College Advice extends its support through one of the most active and resource-rich Facebook Groups for college-bound students and their families: College Admissions Experts. With over 100,000 members—students, parents, and experienced counselors—this vibrant forum offers peer support and expert advice like no other. 

The post Which do Colleges Prefer – AP or IB? first appeared on College Admission Counseling.