A reader recently wrote in to ask my opinion about dual enrollment courses. She wanted to compare them to the Advanced Placement (or AP) options at her son’s school. The question came from a post I wrote analyzing the worth of AP courses. Since she is not the only one to pose the question, let’s dive into the particulars of these two programs and compare them as best we can–with an eye to their relative importance in college admissions.

What Is Dual Enrollment?

First, a brief word of explanation about “dual enrollment,” or “post-secondary enrollment options.” Virtually all states allow high school students to enroll in community college or university courses. These courses also apply the credits earned to their high school transcript. Students enroll twice: they earn both high school AND college credits for the same course. In some cases, community college faculty offer these courses in high school, while in other cases, the high school student must travel to the community college campus. 

In other cases, community college faculty “approve” or certify high school faculty to offer a college-level course after the college has approved the syllabus. 

In most cases, parents pay an extra fee for a dual enrollment course. However, the good thing is that this fee translates to college credits that can often (but not always) be transferred to a university when the student graduates from high school (more on that in a moment). 

No matter how these dual enrollment courses are organized, dually enrolled students receive two sorts of credit for their work. They receive grades on their high school transcript, and the same grades are recorded on their college transcripts. 

Two birds, one stone.

Advantages of Dual Enrollment

The advantages of dual enrollment courses include:

• High schools can offer honors-level courses without hiring new staff
• Districts can save money by partnering with community colleges
• Parents can save on college tuition because these college credits are transferable to most state universities
• Students demonstrate that they can handle college-level work
• Students who doubt their own abilities to succeed in college experience success and are more likely to apply to college–and eventually graduate
• Community colleges and 4-year institutions build a pipeline of students moving from high school to college
• State governments and local governments appreciate the collaboration between K-12 and higher education

In states where dual enrollment options exist, the state government creates master articulation agreements to ensure that credits earned while in high school are guaranteed transfer to higher education systems in that state. Thus, if you take a dual enrollment course in Virginia, your credits are automatically accepted for credit by state-funded universities in Virginia–as long as the grade earned is a C- or above, and as long as the courses are considered academic, “general education” course (as opposed to remedial or developmental courses, or technical or industrial skills courses).

To restate, credits for dual enrollment courses taken in high school will automatically–guaranteed–transfer to universities in the same state. As long as the student performs adequately in the dual enrollment course, they will receive college credit.  The biggest advantage here is cost savings:  those are courses the student (and family) will not have to pay for on the way to a college degree.

Are Dual Enrollment Credits Transferable In-State?

To restate, credits for dual enrollment courses taken in high school will automatically–guaranteed–transfer to universities in the same state. As long as students perform adequately in the dual enrollment course, they will receive college credit.  The biggest advantage here is cost savings:  those are courses the student (and family) will not have to pay for on the way to a college degree. A dual credit history course taken at a high school in Virginia is the functional and administrative equivalent of a history course at the University of Virginia.

Are Dual Enrollment Credits Transferable Out-of-State?

With regard to whether dual enrollment credits are accepted by universities in other states, the landscape becomes a bit more random. Many publicly-funded state colleges and universities will likely accept dual enrollment credits from another state as long as the credits are listed on a transcript from an accredited community college or university. Universities in Colorado, therefore, will accept credits from Florida, as long as they are academic in nature and the student has earned a grade of C- or above. 

However, a receiving university (in the above example, the University of Colorado) would review exactly which courses would be transferred and how they would be counted towards the CU degree only after the student has applied and been accepted to CU.  Most universities operate in this way:  they tell you that “generally speaking,” courses are easily transferred, but they don’t give any specifics until after you are enrolled and they make a detailed determination of how the credits will be applied to your Bachelors degree.

Part of the reason for this is that dual enrollment credits may be counted differently depending on the major you pursue. For example, your dual enrollment college algebra course might not count toward your math requirements for an engineering degree, though it might count as an elective if you are an art history major. 

Nevertheless, it almost always benefits a student to collect dual enrollment credits as a way to reduce the cost of college and, potentially, decrease the time to the degree. If, for example, all the courses a student takes in her junior and senior years of high school are classified as dual enrollment, then effectively that student conceivably could enter as a first semester JUNIOR in college (depending on where the credits are and how they conform to the university’s graduation and major requirements). 

Readers should be aware, therefore, that different states have different rules about how they handle dual enrollment credits from out-of-state students. Do not assume that every dual enrollment credit will be automatically transferred. As with everything in the world of college admissions, you need to do the research to find the answers you need. Policies like this shift all the time, and you need to verify what your desired universities will do with those dual enrollment credits.

Do Dual Enrollment Credits Transfer to Private Universities?

Private colleges are a different matter, however. As private entities, they are free to establish their own transfer criteria. Here again, it is best to check in advance of applying what the college’s policy toward dual enrollment credits will be. Some will be happy to transfer the courses in, as long as their college offers an equivalent course. Others may require a grade of B or better to transfer. And some may not transfer any of your dual enrollment courses at all. Some of the more selective colleges may use dual enrollment credits only to waive prerequisites or for placement purposes.

One thing is clear, however: colleges and universities of all types smile upon applicants who have completed dual enrollment courses. These courses demonstrate the ability to do college-level work, and they send the signal to admissions offices that this student is likely to succeed in college–because they have been challenged in college-level curricula.

Which is Better, AP, IB or DE? 

The answer is: it depends.

First, some schools are unable to offer both AP and dual enrollment courses. In fact, rural high schools are much more likely to rely on dual enrollment courses than AP, because dual enrollment is less expensive to the school district–especially if there is not enough demand to fill a complete AP course. And IB programs are rare because this program is both expensive and affects the entire curriculum offerings at a school that adopts the program. So if there is no AP or IB option in your school, you should definitely consider dual enrollment options. (If you want to dig into whether you should select an AP or IB curriculum, check out this post that compares the IB and AP programs.)

Second, if your goal is to reduce the costs of attending a state university, dual enrollment credits are a guaranteed discount. Because states automatically require these courses to transfer, any PSEO course you take will reduce the number of credits you must complete (and pay for!) while in college. As long you dually enroll in a college prep course and you get a C- or better, you get the college credit.

The AP tests and the IB diploma program, by contrast, come with high-stakes tests:  take the course and then take the test. If you pass an AP test with a score of 3, 4, or 5, you might get college credit. The amount of credit would depend on the policy in place at a particular college or university.  But note that your grade in the AP course has no bearing on whether you get college credit.  The credit you receive depends on your score on the exam.  Thus you could get an A+ in your AP US History class, but get a 2 on the test–in which was you would receive no credit anywhere (well, you’d get the high school credit that leads to your high school diploma, but it would not give you any benefit once you arrive at college). 

The Benefit of Standardized Testing

The AP tests and the IB exams are standardized. They are normed tests. Thus, presumably, a score of 5 on the AP Chemistry means the same thing, no matter whether student attended a private school in Connecticut, a rural public school in Alabama, or an international school in Uruguay.  Similarly, a perfect 7 on the IB English A exam would be considered the same no matter where in the world the student attended secondary school. 

By contrast, an A in that dual enrollment chemistry class might or might not be the educational equivalent of a chemistry class in another location. Some high schools have higher standards than others, some community colleges have higher standards than others, and some individual teachers have higher standards than others (a fact that every high school student everywhere understands). Dual enrollment courses are not standardized. There is no “norm.” An A in one place could be different from an A in another.  

Thus, highly selective universities in the United States tend to favor AP and IB exam results over dual enrollment credits.  Not only are the highly selective less likely to grant you the credits you receive in dual enrollment courses, they are more likely to discount the value of those courses, especially if you had the opportunity to take those rigorous AP or IB courses in your school or community. 

Third, if your school has a strong AP program that has a history of success in helping students earn 4s and 5s on the AP test, you might want to consider the AP courses if you plan to attend a highly selective college or university. The reason is this: the AP test is a demonstration of proficiency and competence in a subject matter.

While credit is a demonstration that you did what the teacher or professor required of you, the AP test is a nationally-normed test (and the IB is globally-normed). A score of 5 on an AP test communicates that are you a good student who can handle college-level work, that you are capable of performing well on cumulative examinations, and that you have demonstrated a high degree of mastery of the subject matter. This is why selective colleges and universities strongly prefer AP and IB results over grades in dual enrollment courses.

So Should You Take Dual Enrollment or AP Classes?

Again, it depends. Remember that not every student has a choice, as not every school offers AP courses while most public high schools are able to offer dual enrollment options. 

If your goal is to reduce the cost of your college education and you plan to go to a public university in-state, there is no doubt that dual enrollment options are going to save you money and reduce the time necessary to earn your college degree. For the vast majority of Americans, the dual enrollment option is the smartest choice.  No high stakes exams.  No doubts as to the ability to transfer credits to college. Take those dual enrollment courses, get good grades, and get through college more quickly and more cheaply.

If your goal is to attend one of the most selective colleges and universities in the United States–and your high school offers them–then take the AP or IB courses on offer.  They are considered by admissions offers at these universities to be more rigorous, and the cumulative examinations at the end of the course demonstrate clearly how you stack up against other students taking the same subject across the country (or across the world). 

The Caveat:  Your High School’s Pass Rate on the AP Exams

Standardized tests, despite their flaws, do help admissions officers compare apples to apples. They help to separate grades from proficiency.  High scores provide external verification that the grades a student earns are an expression of content mastery. 

However, as we have noted, not all teachers are the same. The AP curriculum is challenging and rigorous. Not every teacher is either trained or experienced in delivering this curriculum. For example, there is a low-performing high school in my community where nearly 80% of the teachers are first-year teachers–every year! AP courses at this school are being taught be very, very inexperienced teachers. 

Therefore if you are considering AP courses offered at your school, ask questions and do some investigating. Some schools have very low pass rates on the AP exams. Even students who get high grades in their AP courses core only 1 or 2 on the exams. (In other words, these students fail and will absolutely not receive any college credit, nor will they be able to brag about their high scores on their college applications). 

Just because a course is labeled AP does not mean that it is a good course. Nor does the label mean that a student will achieve the level of mastery required to score a 5 on the AP exam. Many, many schools across the country offer AP courses that are very poorly taught. Many teachers simply do not have the content background or pedagogical skills to prepare students for these rigorous exams.

The College Board is trying to ratchet up the standards. They know that parents are noticing the disconnect between the brand name and teacher preparedness. Efforts by the College Board to verify AP syllabi in all courses labeled AP is a good start. But in the end, success in the AP (or IB) program is not about the curriculum alone. It is about the teacher who delivers that curriculum.

As a quick aside, huge variances between classroom grades and results on the IB exams are less common–though they do happen. The most important reason for this is that schools that adopt the IB program pay very high fees to participate in the program, the syllabi are much more standardized, and the International Baccalaureate Organization requires schools to train their teachers in the delivery of these syllabi. Schools that have been offering the IB curriculum for many years are generally pretty good at delivering the program and helping students to achieve good results. Nevertheless, it is important for students and parents to inquire about a secondary school’s IB pass rates before enrolling in the program.

Jaime Escalante of Stand and Deliver fame enabled his poor, inner-city students to pass the AP calculus exam. He was a fantastic, talented, workaholic teacher who did not rest until his students passed that exam. Teachers in your school’s AP program may resemble Mr. Escalante.  Or they may resemble Mr. Larson. He was my high school math teacher. He was as creative as a lima bean and as dedicated as an assembly line worker two weeks before retirement. An AP syllabus in his hands would make it highly unlikely that anyone but Einstein himself would pass that AP Calculus exam.

A Student Vouches for the Value of Dual Enrollment Courses

Over the years, students have read my blog and written to me to share their own experiences and insights. A young woman who attended the College of William and Mary read this post a while back and took the time to write to me to advocate for dual enrollment courses. She attended a high school in Virginia and then enrolled at the selective, public liberal arts college in that state. I think it’s worth quoting this letter in full, because it speaks to the priorities and choices students face as they choose the right path for themselves. There is no right and wrong answer to the question, “which is better, AP or dual enrollment classes?”.  Each student and family must make decide what makes the most sense given their values, priorities, and preferences. 

So thank you, Sarah, for writing in with your opinion, and I’m happy to share it below.

Mark Montgomery
College Counselor
Great College Advice

Mark,

As a current college student, I vouch for the dual enrollment option when high school students are looking through their course options. I went to a very small, rural high school in Virginia, and had the opportunity to take DE credit classes through local community colleges. I finished at the top of my class and I am currently an academic junior at the College of William and Mary.

During my freshman year in college, I came to find that a majority of my friends took AP classes, got an A or a high B in the class, but couldn’t get a 4 or 5 on their AP exam (mind you, these students came from great private and public high schools all over the country, each with its own long-standing AP track). William and Mary requires a score of 4 or 5 to get credit from an AP course. I can’t tell you how many of my friends got burned by taking AP. All 39 of my dual enrollment credits transferred and I am graduating in 3 years.

A lot of really great colleges and universities require high AP scores. So it is very important to do your research on the school you wish to attend. Taking an AP class may look good on a transcript. But how good will it look when the student doesn’t pass the exam with the necessary score? I feel like AP is put up on this pedestal as being the best of the best. However, there is nothing wrong with dual enrollment classes, and taking DE doesn’t mean that one could not handle the supposed “harder” AP course load. I can assure you, the classes I took through my governor’s school were more than challenging.

Best of luck,

Sarah

The post AP, IB, and Dual Enrollment: Which Is Better for College Admission first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

So while the answer is yes, a student with bad grades can still go to college. There are other questions that we must consider to determine the best course of action for a student with low grades.

Why Are Your Grades Bad?

First of all, why are your grades so poor? Is it because you experienced some sort of traumatic event early in high school that has colored your experience? For example, students who lose a parent or sibling may lose focus in high school, and their performance may suffer. Illness also can have a negative impact on one’s academic performance. Missing a lot of schools can make it difficult to keep up.

However, if your grades reflect poor choices on your part, it’s going to be harder to convince an admissions officer that you’re really college material. If you skip class, neglect to hand in assignments, or refuse to study for tests, perhaps continuing with school is not really something you want to do. I’ve had some students tell me that they really want to go to college, but that they really hate school. I have to remind them that college is, in fact, school.

And this fact leads to some other troubling facts. Generally only slightly more than half of students who start a four-year degree complete it—even within six years. There are many reasons for which students may not complete their Bachelor’s degree. However, students with poor academic records in high school are among the least likely to graduate from college. In fact, if you graduate within the bottom 25% of your high school class, statistically you have less chance of completing your Bachelor’s degree

Before you lose heart, remember that these are aggregate statistics. You may well be one of the people who beats the statistical odds. Still, you need to consider carefully whether more school is really your best route to success. Or whether you should consider other routes.

If Your Grades Are Bad, You Have Choices

Certainly, the structure of university life is very different from the more rigid structures of secondary school. But you will still be expected to do your homework. As well as attend lectures and labs, study for tests, and write research papers. High schools are pretty much required to let you keep coming back to class despite your poor performance. However, a college or university can throw you out if you refuse to do the academic work.

Thus it is crucial for you to consider whether your current poor choices really will change once you arrive on a college campus. Or, if you were one of those students who suffers some sort of personal setback, extenuating circumstance, or other difficulty. You might want to ask whether the circumstances have changed enough for you to refocus yourself academically and perform better in the future.

Assuming that you have made the decision to pursue college despite your lackluster transcript. Or that your circumstances have changed enough for you to succeed, then you need to consider which educational path will be the best for you.

Your choices may be more limited than those of an academically focused student. But you still have choices.

Start at a Community College If Your Grades are Bad

Most community colleges have “open enrollment” policies, whereby anyone—regardless of academic history—can enroll. You may be asked to take a basic placement test in English and mathematics. This is to ensure that you have the fundamental skills to do college-level work.  Those who perform poorly on these tests will be asked to take some remedial work before starting college-level work. But if you can pass these placement tests, then you’re off and running.

It’s cheaper

Community colleges also are much less expensive than four-year colleges, generally speaking. Therefore if you are worried about whether you really can improve your performance in college, then it makes sense to spend a bit less money to prove to yourself that you are ready and that you can succeed.

Courses that transfer

The best thing about starting at a community college is that many, many courses are automatically transferable to your state’s four-year institution. Thus you can conceivably take all your general education requirements at the community college. And transfer to your state college or university without losing any credits. Of course, you will need to research exactly which credits are transferable and which are not.  But if you perform well (and perhaps even complete your Associate’s degree) at the community college, you will find that you have become a highly desirable candidate for admission. Even at competitive colleges and universities that would never have even considered you at the end of your (less than stellar) high school career.

One example of how community colleges can be the gateway to a four-year college is in Massachusetts. Community colleges are offering pre-engineering Associates degrees that are easily transferred not only to the University of Massachusetts at Amherst but also to Northeastern University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Worcester Polytechnic Institute and Western New England College.

Get your diploma from a flagship university

Thus even students with poor high school grades may be able to graduate from their state flagship university. Or even a selective private university. For example, I worked with a student whose high school record was very poor. And whose parents refused to pay for anything more than community college. Their philosophy is that their son had squandered four years of cost-free public high school. They were unwilling to pay for him to continue to make bad choices. 

They did tell him, however, that if he earned his associate’s degree from the local community college—at his own expense—that they would pay for whatever four-year college he would accept him. At the end of two years, he got into a selective, private university as a transfer student. His Bachelor’s diploma bears the name of that four-year university. Only people who know him well have any idea that barely graduated from high school with a D average!

If Your Grades are Bad, Attend a Less-Selective Four-Year College or University

Many public and private colleges and universities that are relatively forgiving of a poor high school record.  In fact, the vast majority of colleges and universities in the US accept 75% or more of the students who apply. In order to admit you in good conscience, however, it will be critical for you to convince the admissions people that your circumstances have changed. That you have mended your ways. And that your past choices will not determine those that you will make in the future.

Some colleges like to see improvement

Some colleges also specialize in assisting these “diamonds in the rough” or “late bloomers.” They provide extra academic support. And may have more requirements (including, for example, taking attendance in lectures). Other colleges may accept students on a provisional or probationary basis. You are accepted on the assumption that you will maintain your grades at a certain level. Or else you will be asked not to return for the next semester.

For students with learning differences that have had a marked negative impact on their academic performance will want to make sure they apply to schools that can help them to develop strategies for future success. These schools have learning specialists, adaptive technologies, professional tutors, and many other resources that can help ensure academic success.

Choose a college wisely:  it’s not about admission, it’s about graduation

Students with weak academic histories who elect to go directly to a four-year college need to be especially careful in choosing an appropriate college. They also need to be brutally honest with themselves about how the relative lack of daily structure. The increased expectations of personal responsibility, and the existence of countless campus distractions and temptations all may conspire to lure students into a continuation of their bad choices. Students who really want to change bad habits will need to pick colleges that will help them stay on the straight and narrow.

By the same token, it is also important to keep in mind that it can be hard to go “cold turkey” into a life of stoic, academic asceticism. If you cannot find ways to balance a bit of fun with serious academic study, then you are likely to become unhappy. And you may not stick with college long enough to complete your degree and achieve your goals.

Take Some Time Out

If high school has not been successful for you, perhaps you need to take some time out to work, travel the world, or otherwise get your act together. Many students have a difficult time seeing the direct relevance of academic work to their lives. They are confused about their direction in life. And they may not be listening to the adults in their lives who harp at them about the importance of a college education.

Gap year

I often recommend a gap year or interim experience for students who do want to continue their education, but who are not really ready to dedicate themselves to more classroom time, more homework assignments, and more final exams. Taking a gap year (or two) can be a very healthy alternative. For some students, especially if they take the time and effort to plan their year. Planning is key: the difference between stopping out and dropping out is a well-conceived plan.

What you do depends on your imagination and your interests. For example, you may decide to focus on the world of work by pursuing an internship or apprenticeship. For example, Dynamy, in Worcester, Massachusetts, is a well-regarded year-long internship experience to help students gain experience and explore possible career paths. Others may choose to perform community services, through organizations such as City Year or AmeriCorps. Even taking some time to be a ski bum. (perhaps earning a ski instructor’s certification from Flying Fish) This can give a student the time and space to figure out how a college education fits into their own priorities.

Join the military

The military, too, can serve as a solid plan for taking time out from school. You can learn valuable skills, train for a profession, and serve your country. And then, once you are ready for college, the government will help you pay for it.

But what will colleges think if you don’t go directly from high school to college? Colleges are happy to accept older, more directed students.  As we have discussed, about half of students who start college complete their degrees in six years. If you apply after a year or two of work experience, travel, or internships, you will be more mature. As well as more directed as you enter college. From the college’s perspective, you are probably more likely to complete your degree than the pea-green freshman who has no idea what he wants out of college.

As an example, every year my alma mater profiles non-traditional students who are admitted to Dartmouth. I had several classmates who were much older than I was. Who had been in the military, or who had spent a few years building log cabins, who had focused on their athletic abilities for a while, who had established their own business. Or who had just bummed around until they figured out how a college education fit into their personal goals. Sometimes—and for some people—taking time out between high school and college can be a wise choice.

So to come back to our original question. Even a student with poor grades in high school still has a shot at a college education. The American educational system allows for second chances. It’s not completely unusual to hear of people in their 80s and 90s who finally achieve their goal of a college education. Your high school grades may make it impossible for you to walk a straight line right into college.  But if you make good choices, develop some self-discipline, and set goals for yourself, you can attain all your goals—and more.

If My Grades Are Bad, Can I Still Go to College:  FAQs

If I fail a class in high school, can I still go to college?

Yes.  Of course you have to consider how you can make up for that bad grade (retake the course, or perhaps take something else that is similar). And you have to think about how you’ll explain that big, fat F on your transcript. Perhaps it was temporary insanity that you just didn’t study. Perhaps you didn’t realize until it was too late that you needed help. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances in your life that distracted you. Or perhaps it was just an ugly mistake for which you must atone. One mistake will not prevent you from achieving your academic goals. But you need to be clear-eyed about the reasons for the failure and do whatever you can to avoid making a similar mistake in the future.

How should I explain the failure on my college application?

It depends on the application. Most will have an open-ended question that allows you to address particular information about your academic record.  On the Common App, the “additional information” section is a good place for you to do this.  As noted, you have to be honest and open about the reasons for the failure.  On the application, be direct, concise, and factual. Don’t go into the emotions. Don’t make excuses. Recount the story (briefly!) and describe the steps you have taken in the wake of the failure to ensure that it will not happen again. Don’t make empty promises:  give evidence of the “new you.”

How can my school counselor help me if my grades are bad?

In most cases, your high school counselor will be well-aware of your failure. That person may have been instrumental in helping your correct the problem. No matter how involved the counselor has been, if that person is going to write a recommendation in support of your application, you need to discuss the failure and what you have done to correct it. You need the counselor to be your ally and perhaps provide more evidence that you have mended your ways and that whatever happened in the past is unlikely to reoccur in the future. Again, evidence is important. Can the counselor point to specific actions you have taken, changes in behavior, or attest to the external events that may have contributed to the problem? If so, ask the counselor to include such evidence in their recommendation. 

What about the teacher whose class I failed?

In some cases, the teacher who failed you might be in no mood to support your application to college. However, teachers are rarely vindictive. They want to see their students learn and grow and change. And if you figured out a way to make amends for your failure, you might want to share that turnaround with the teacher. And if the teacher is kind, he or she might even write a letter of recommendation to support your application. In some ways, this teacher might be best placed to demonstrate that you have turned a corner and that whatever happened is now in the past and your future should not be hindered by a single mistake. 

What else can I do if my grades are bad?

Get professional help. The team at Great College Advice is adept at helping students who failed a course–or two or three–in high school. Many schools are ready to welcome students who have had less-than-optimal academic experiences in high school. If you have made changes in how you approach the responsibilities of school and remain eager to get into college, you can do it. Give us a call or complete our contact form. We’d be happy to talk to you about how we can help you get into college, even if your grades are bad. 

Mark Montgomery
Educational Consultant

The post If My Grades Are Bad, Can I Still Go To College? first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

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I Love Community College

If the metric for intelligence and success in our society is admission to a prestigious university, then we are failing a large majority of our students. I am currently a junior at Tufts University taking a “study elsewhere” semester at Montgomery County Community College (MC3). And I LOVE IT. During my brief time there, I have learned so much about myself, about the world, and the elitism that runs rampant in the college process.

Even though we are in a pandemic and all of my classes were virtual, I learned so much and made such meaningful connections. Community college has a bad reputation, and most people (including me) never have the chance to realize just how wonderful it is.

Preparing for College: My Assumptions and My Stress

When I was applying to colleges, my list consisted of the top colleges in the country. The pressure to attend an Ivy League institution was astronomical. With each person I spoke to came the inevitable question, “What schools are you applying to? Penn? Brown?” Every influential figure in my life was preoccupied with the clout of an elite institution, including my teachers, my college counselor, and even my parents.

I landed on Tufts as my dream school. I honestly believed that if I didn’t get into Tufts, my reputation and my future would be ruined. I refused to consider a back-up school and was adamant that Tufts (or a comparable school) was the only option for me. This colored my entire high school career. Every activity I did was with this goal in mind. Will this club make my application more appealing? Will getting a B be the end of my dreams?

My Elitism Was Showing

In high school, I never even considered community college as a viable educational option. I always believed that it was a last resort option for students who couldn’t get in anywhere else. Like many kids my age with my economic and social background, I bought into stereotypical representations of community college.

As I will explain, I no longer believe in these stereotypes. But I want to share from the outset that I still struggle internally with the idea that there is somehow a huge gulf of prestige between those who attend an elite college and those who attend a community college. I would like to say that if I could go back in time, that I would choose to go to community college for at least two years. But I cannot say that with certainty because I like being associated with Tufts. It gives me access to numerous opportunities that I would not have had otherwise.

I feel pride in saying I got into a school with a low acceptance rate. My high school self would have been embarrassed to say that I was going to a community college and would have felt like I “failed”. Writing this because I don’t want others to see community college like that, and I want students to be proud to go there. I am proud to go there. Believed that I would have been happy going to MC3 right out of high school. I would have had more financial freedom, and the ability to take different classes.

However, I have to recognize that internalized and externalized elitism are deeply rooted plagues in our society. On a conscious level, I make an effort to be aware of these internal stigmas and biases. And yet, my subconscious biases reared their ugly head again just last week. When someone asked me where I went to school, I immediately blurted out Tufts—even though currently, I don’t go to Tufts: I attend Montgomery County Community College.

I was hoping to mooch off of Tufts’ stellar reputation, assuming it would signal to this person that I was intelligent. Looking back, I’m a bit embarrassed that I didn’t tell the complete truth. Biases die hard, I guess. But with each day and each new opportunity, I will continue to reduce my elitism. It’s a process, and in sharing with you, I invite you to begin that process with me.

College Costs: Is An Elite Education Worth It (Even Without Covid?)

My decision to go to community college was both practical and financial. With Tufts going entirely online, it didn’t make sense to me to pay so much for a campus experience I wasn’t going to get through a computer screen. My positive experience at MC3 has highlighted for me not only the enormous costs of my Tufts education, but also the enormous value of a community college education. I also understand—now more than ever—that my Tufts education is economically out of reach of most American families.

Tuition prices are not the only barriers to an elite education, however. There are so many financial barriers to college beyond the sticker price of attendance. In order to go to a prestigious institution, one must possess the right grades, the right standardized testing scores, and the right extracurriculars. It also helps to attend the “right” high schools. Each one of those components costs money: higher property taxes, good tutors, and parents willing to pay for private piano lessons and traveling sports teams.

For some kids, getting exemplary grades in high school is challenging for numerous reasons. Some high school students have to work to help support their family, leaving less time to devote to studying. If one is taking care of their younger siblings or family members, they have less time to devote to studying. Some students have inadequate internet access, making it hard to study from home.

Lower income kids with learning disabilities fall through the cracks of the public education system more easily. The unfortunate fact is that students with more financial resources can afford to spend more time focusing on their grades.

On top of that, success on standardized testing is unachievable to a large portion of students. Not only are there fees to take the test each time you decide to. But there is also the cost of tutoring or prep. And if a high school is poorly resourced, its students will likely be less prepared for those tests and will get lower scores—not because they aren’t smart, but because they cannot afford to get personalized help.

All of these obstacles mean that for a student without financial means, going to an elite institution is often out of reach. While we must work to reduce this opportunity gap, we also must acknowledge that prestigious institutions are a measure of socioeconomic status, which is often a prerequisite for academic success in America today.

Community College Classes Are Rigorous

I am deeply ashamed to admit that when I signed up, I was convinced that MC3 would be a breeze. I was certain that the classes would be a walk in the park. And could not have been more wrong. My classes have been challenging and require a lot of effort and work. The fact is that learning a new subject requires effort, no matter the name of the school one attends. Learning is a function of the energy a student devotes to it. It doesn’t matter if that course is taught at Community College or Tufts.

I was reading the same number of textbook chapters and doing the same amount of homework at Montgomery Community that I did at Tufts. The exams have been tough, and the assignments have been thought-provoking and interesting. While I have enjoyed my Tufts education, I can tell you that not every learning experience has been perfect. I’ve learned a lot in all my classes.

But I now understand that my learning is more about the work I do than the work the professor does. The idea that one will necessarily learn “more” in an elite institution is not the reality of how one learns.

Of course, having a well-thought-out syllabus and creative assignments can help a student learn. But my point is that good instruction exists in both elite schools and community colleges. A student graduating from an elite school is not necessarily “better educated” than a student from a community college. It’s all about what one does with the opportunity at hand.

The Professors Are Awesome—and Accessible

It is a common misperception that prestigious schools offer small, intimate classes with consistent intellectual interaction with professors. This has not always been my experience at Tufts, but it has been this way at Montgomery Community. At Tufts, my introductory courses had hundreds of students. My professors for Intro to International Relations or Intro to Economics never learned my name.

Realistically, they weren’t able to learn the names of the 100+ students in their classes. A lot of the professor-student relationship at Tufts is contingent on how much the student is willing to put into it.

It requires numerous trips to office hours just to get to know professors, or it sitting front row in a lecture hall with 200 students and running up to talk to the professor as soon as the lecture end. I was never comfortable with raising my hand and turning around to see the expectant faces of my peers staring at me. I was also intimidated by my Tufts professors. And never wanted to ask a stupid question or waste their time.

By contrast, my introductory classes at Montgomery County Community College had ten or fifteen students. This allowed professors to get to know their students, to help them with specific questions, and to address their unique ways of learning. At MC3, I just had to show up and I got to know my professors. I felt comfortable participating and engaging with a smaller group of students, so we created a group rapport. I never went to office hours. Even in Zoom classes, my teachers paid specialized attention to me.

It’s definitely true that smaller classes provide not only more support but also encourage more rigor. In a small class, it’s impossible to hide in the back of the room. Students must show and be ready to participate. Students and professors engage with the material together—because they can. This intimacy also means that when you say the wrong answer, the class has time to review and discuss it, instead of hurrying along to the next raised hand. That encourages a growth mindset, instead of reinforcing a fixed mindset where failure is final. Learning is more collaborative and more fun.

I have attended Tufts for four semesters, and I have had two professors who know me. They have taken the time to invest in my success and connect with me on a more personal level. I’m incredibly appreciative of these relationships. By comparison, however, I have gone to MC3 for only one semester and I already have two professors who really know me very well—even over Zoom. They took the time to get to know me. My Spanish professor for instance, made it clear from our very first class that she cared about each and every single one of us.

When teaching lessons, she integrated our interests into the curriculum. She knew that one girl loved cheerleading and one boy loved bowling. She used that knowledge to spark a debate about sports and explain to us what sports are most popular in Spanish culture. When we learned vocabulary for classroom elements, she would stop and ask me to explain what it feels like to live in a dorm.

Because she knew that I had lived in one at Tufts. She stayed after every class on Zoom for questions or concerns. She regularly checked in with us and even made an effort to bring us joy with a virtual holiday sweater contest.

My Criminal Justice professor brought every single person into the discussion with her hilarious remarks and inviting nature. There was never a moment where I was afraid to ask a question or to email her with my concerns, despite the fact that she has been an attorney for 32 years, and an instructor for over 30. Her accolades and unique experience could have made her intimidating, but instead, I wanted to learn more and more from her by way of asking questions. She encouraged us to have confidence in our answers and applauded our hard work.

Without ever meeting with her outside of class, she got to know me. From day one at MC3, I felt accepted and connected to my peers and professor. That is a huge feat. I went to a new school that was completely virtual in the midst of a global pandemic, and I felt supported from the start.

And the Students Are Talented

I hate to admit it, but I assumed that my peers at community college would not be very smart. Again, I was wrong. And a number of my MC3 peers are some of the most brilliant people I have ever met. One of my new friends immigrated here and spoke French, she then learned English and Spanish while in the middle of a pandemic in a new country. I have taken French since the 2nd grade, and I am still not fluent. Her ability to learn new languages astounds me.

Another classmate is a firefighter. He has taught me so much about FEMA and Homeland Security. His knowledge and depth of understanding contributed so much to my learning in the small classroom environment, and I feel fortunate to have shared that class with him.

Community College Is Diverse In Every Way

As much as I love Tufts, we exist in a bubble there. Everyone is more or less the same age. Conversations about politics and real-world problems are largely limited to the points of view of the privileged. Liberal political views dominate the conversation. The school is predominantly white, with little racial diversity. I never really understood the depth of the lack of diversity in my learning environment until I went to Montgomery County Community College. There, I have been surrounded by people of all races.

Having conversations about important social issues like race education, healthcare, etc. are incomplete without diverse points of view. It is problematic to talk about Black Lives Matter or racial profiling without centering and listening to Black and Brown voices. While I believe that there are efforts to diversify viewpoints at Tufts, these efforts sometimes place an undue burden on the shoulders of a small group of people.

Furthermore, at Montgomery Community, there are students of every age; high schoolers doing dual enrollment, 18-22-year olds, and adults with families. One of my new friends is in high school, and another is home with her daughter while juggling work and school. I met people who worked two or three jobs on top of the school. Listening to their ideas and perspectives gave me a new understanding of the world. They bring life experiences that give them dynamic points of view. These experiences were not manufactured for the purpose of a resume or college essay. When we had discussion groups, I learned more from them than my textbooks.

Community College Educates VIPs

One of the most impactful moments of my experience was when my criminal justice professor asked the class about their views on crime and justice. There were several options of attitudes towards criminal justice that we could choose from. I thought this was an obvious answer. For me, rehabilitative justice and equal justice are the most important principles. I believe in the importance of second chances and fair treatment to everyone regardless of age, sexuality, race or religion. At Tufts, I am fairly certain that everyone has similar opinions. If they don’t, they are not very vocal about it.

However, some of my Montgomery Community classmates thought that the most important perspective of justice was the crime control perspective, a view shared by a lot of Americans. The crime control perspective maintains that public safety should supersede everything, and that law enforcement agents should have fewer legal restrictions on their actions. This viewpoint may justify the use of militaristic force or racial profiling to apprehend criminals and deter crime.

A first this discussion seemed very abstract. Then it dawned on me that many of my classmates were planning careers in law enforcement. This realization had a huge impact on me. My classmates, in one way or another, are going to make a difference in my society, in my community.

My professor made it clear that all opinions were welcome, and she listened to all viewpoints. The welcoming environment kept the conversation honest and fostered understanding instead of hostility. When my professor talked about racial profiling, she showed clips of BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) discussing how racial profiling has affected them in their lifetimes.

Do I believe that my classmates will go on to become police officers who never racial profile? No, but I do believe that without this course, they would not have understood it in this way from the perspectives of those who are racially profiled. Montgomery Community educates everyday leaders like police officers. The education of these members of our community is integral to a functioning society.

These leaders represent the values and the morality of a community, and their work informs America. Community Colleges are accessible, affordable institutions that educate very important people in the community. They serve as vehicles for Americans to achieve–and make possible–the American Dream.

Community Colleges Care About Their Students (but for different reasons)

Montgomery Community also goes the extra effort to support their students as an institution. When I did well on a test or in a class. I would receive an email from the school congratulating me. The administration frequently gave me encouraging feedback. This positive reinforcement made me work harder because I was so proud to be acknowledged for my devotion to my studies. MC3 sent me stickers in the mail just because they, “thought my mailbox could use a little shimmer.” I mean, how nice is that?

When I enrolled in MC3 classes for the coming semester, I decided that I wanted to take extra credits. The process to petition for courses is more complicated at Montgomery Community than other institutions. I emailed the academic dean to ask to petition for an overload. Within one day, we had a meeting scheduled. Within one week, I was on the phone with her. The dean talked through my decision with me, reviewed my classes, asked me about my extracurriculars, and then granted my request. That type of personalized support is invaluable.

At MC3, the administration is investing me in me and my peers. Montgomery County Community College sees itself not as a provider of services. But as an investor in the next generation of leaders in the community. College is often the first time that some students are on their own, making decisions that impact their future and their life without the involvement of their parents, guardians, or counselors. This personalized support from MC3 makes students feel less alone in their college journey and reminds them that the college is actively invested in their success. With that investment, these colleges instill a passion and excitement for learning in their students.

A New Perspective on Education

I’ve spent a single semester at Montgomery Community, and I am excited to be enrolled for a second. I wrote this piece because I wanted to share my revelation with others who may not fully appreciate the value and the quality of community colleges.

My perception of education has changed. I realized that success is not solely dependent upon admission to a selective, private college like Tufts. Success is the result of hard work and tenacity. The students at MC3 have those qualities in spades, which is why I look forward to seeing the amazing things my new classmates—my friends–accomplish in their lives.

I wish that I hadn’t spent years of my life judging others for where they went to college. I wish that I hadn’t considered myself smarter just because I had the resources to go to Tufts. But I did and can’t change my past behavior. But I am proud to have found a new perspective, and to actively work to combat my elitism. And I am proud to be a Tufts Jumbo and I feel grateful and privileged to be able to go there. Now, I am equally grateful and privileged to be a Montgomery County Community College Mustang!

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The post Community College vs University: A Personal Educational Discovery first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

Here’s the question submitted by a young man named Robert:

Hello!
I need you to do me a favor and give this to me straight without trying to make me feel good. I have a 2.0 GPA andthe 4th Quarter of my Junior year is about to start. I’ve taken my SAT once so far and got a 1600, I plan on taking it again. I really do want to go to college more than most people who have better grades than me do. Given my grades can I get into college? What acceptance rate should I stick near? Do you have any tips for me to help my college appeal? Please don’t try to soften it up for me I need to hear it honest and straight. 
Thanks, Robert

And here is my brief response. It hits him hard, but he wanted it “honest and straight.”
Very briefly, I can tell you that you will be able to get into college. There is always a college somewhere that will take your money, even if you have a terrible GPA.  

 However, you need to consider two things.

What do you think? Is this the advice you would give him? If not, how would you say it differently?

Mark Montgomery
Honest and Straight Educational Consultant

The post Bad Grades Can Still Get You Into College–At a Price first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

First, taking college credits while still in high school can greatly reduce the cost of a college education. Especially because students with PSEO credits can transfer them directly to the flagship university in their home state.

Second, they can help prepare kids for the rigors of a college education. Students who take and complete college-level courses are going to be more desirable to colleges. Universities want to admit people that they believe have a high probability of successfully completing their degree. Students who have a record of college success as high school students clearly have an edge in the admissions process.

An article from last year’s Denver Post illustrates that more Colorado high schoolers are taking college courses.  Some of them are even landing at places like Harvard. Because Harvard recognizes and rewards students who take their education seriously.

This trend is continuing, and state policies are changing to reflect this reality.  As of this past week, the University of Colorado will now guarantee admission to any student in the state who has 30 hours of credit from a community college and a GPA of 2.7 on a 4.0 scale.

The post Community College and PSEO Classes Can Lead to University Success first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

Zac Bissonnette, author of Debt Free U:  How I Paid for an Outstanding College Education Without Loans, Scholarships, or Mooching Off My Parents, continues his series of guest posts today by addressing first the woeful lack of objective indicators of educational quality in our colleges and universities, and second the value of starting one’s educational experience at a community college.

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Can we really tell which colleges are “better” than others in some objective way?

No. This is really the greatest lie that the entire college industry is built on. People who have explored colleges objectively — i.e. people who aren’t trying to spit out rankings to sell magazines full of car ads and guidebooks — have concluded that there just isn’t information available to determine whether one college leads to better outcomes than another.

A big part of the reason for that, I think, is that we’re talking about 18 year-olds, not six year-olds. Your kid is already basically an adult, and the idea that there’s some magical institution that will turn your stoner kid into an honors student is a myth. Your kid’s college experience will be determined by what he brings to it, not which institution he attends. Colleges are a lot more similar than they are different: a bunch of kids — some cool and some not cool — and a bunch of professors — some cool and some not cool.

You sing the praises of community colleges, and I agree that they are woefully underappreciated in our society. What sorts of kids would you say should take seriously the idea of attending community college?

According to Marty Nemko, of students who graduate in the bottom 40% of their high school class and enroll at a four-year college, 76% won’t earn a degree within 8 1/2 years. So community college is a good way to do a budget-minded test run if your kid is sort of college-marginal in terms of grades and motivation.

But community college is also a fantastic option for anyone on a budget. In the fall of 2007, Amherst College visited 22 community colleges to recruit top students. 9 out of 11 transfers that year came from community colleges. In 2006, 26% Stanford’s transfer students came from community colleges.

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To amplify Zac’s point a bit, it is true that there are no real, objective data that can prove–with any sort of scientific certainty–which colleges are better. There are no standards. Different colleges teach different curricula. Some bemoan the lack of standardization in K-12 education in the United States. But K-12 teachers in America are singing in unison in comparison to the educational cacophony at the tertiary level. Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education under George Bush II, made some noises about the need for measuring educational quality among our colleges and universities. But the efforts went nowhere.

So we’re left only with this: each individual has to decide for him or herself which college is best–for him or her. It’s a matter of opinion, of “feel,” of impressions, and best guesses. This is the value of an educational consultant. Further, as Zac points out. It is sometimes the role of an educational consultant to help students and families consider all the options available–including community college. While community college may not be best for everyone. Kids who have not performed well in high school (for whatever reason) and families who want to save some dough would do well to consider starting at a community college.

I like Zac’s book because it makes us stop and think. His contrarian viewpoints are useful in getting students and families to truly consider all their priorities. For Zac, economic priorities are paramount. And probably for most, this ordering is appropriate. One thing is for sure: Zac Bissonnette is going to have quite an impact on college counseling in the United States.

Thanks for agreeing to appear on my blog, Zac!

Mark Montgomery
Educational Consultant

The post Which College Is Best? What Are the Objective Indicators? first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

Fact:  Census data from 2005 indicate that only 28% of Americans have obtained a Bachelors degree.

Fact:  Only about 10% of Americans take the “traditional path” of completing their Bachelors degree in 4 years.

Fact:  At private four-year colleges, the percentage of students graduating in four years is, on average, 54%.  Among our public institutions, the four-year graduation rate is 32%.

The selective, elite colleges have better four-year graduations rates.  But if you compare the total number of students in the Ivy League (about 60,000) to the number of undergraduates at just one of our largest institutions (40,000 at Ohio State University, for example), or with the 6.6 million students enrolled in our community colleges across the country, you can start to see the disparity between those few how pursue the “traditional” four-year path and the majority who take five, six, or more years to complete their Bachelor’s degree.

Mr. Swidley’s main point is that the general public does not understand that “swirling” (the term enrollment managers use to describe the the dynamic of students of moving in and out and around the higher education system) is the norm in higher education, and that policy makers in higher education tend to create systems (e.g., rules pertaining to the transfer of credits from one university to another) that enshrine the myth and deny the reality:  swirlers are the vast majority of the people in our higher education system.

Parents and students should read this article.  Before you embark on a higher education plan, you need to consider that it is more likely that you complete in five or six years or more, then you need to factor that likelihood into your plans.

Think about the following:

1.  Will you attend a public university?  If so, study the four and six-year graduation rates at your school, and give yourself permission to consider taking longer to complete your degree. Don’t beat yourself up if you find it hard to finish in four years–you’re in good company!

2.  Do you know what you will major in?  If not–and if you will attend a large, state university–keep in mind that you are perhaps most at risk of having to take a 5th or 6th year to complete your degree, as it is often difficult to satisfy credit requirements if you do not plan far enough ahead.  Better still, try to narrow your choices early:  the impact of changing your major from political science to economics will be less than if you switch from engineering to art history.

3.  If you think you may take 5 or 6 years to complete, how will you pay for the degree?  Tuition will likely increase each year, and usually credits are cheaper if you enroll full-time than if you enroll part-time.  So it may make more sense to take a full year off, get a decent job, save money, and then return to school full-time.

4.  If you do take some time off between matriculation and graduation, what will you do?  What sort of job will you get?  Pursue an internship or co-op program or apprenticeship?  Perhaps you might join Americorps or spend some time abroad learning a new language.  Don’t just flounder around–make the time off part of your overall educational plan.

5.  If you anticipate that money will be the primary obstacle to completing your degree, consider enrolling in a two-year community college and take courses that your state goverment guarantees can be transferred to your flagship state university.

Both policy makers and the general public need to abandon the myth of the four-year college degree.  It is not the norm–it is the exception.

Students–and their parents–need to build their educational expectations and plans around the norm.  Instead of feeling like failures or otherwise inadequate learners, perhaps we need a new slogan to rally the “silent majority” of students in higher education.

“Swirlers Are Swell”.

“Two, Four, Six, Eight — It Takes a While to Graduate”

“College:  I Did It MY WAY!”

Any other catchy slogans you can think of?  Add them in the comments below–we’ll print up T-Shirts!

Mark Montgomery
Educational Consultant

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The post Traditional Four-Year College Degrees are the Exception, not the Rule first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

Part of this is about money. Part is about offering professional certifications and diplomas in vocational training (fire science, certain kinds of nursing, teaching, and the like). We are likely to continue to see this trend.

But where did it all start (in my opinion)? The decline of vocational training in high school has pushed this sort of education up into higher education.

Mark Montgomery
College Counselor

The post Community Colleges Challenge Hierarchy With 4-Year Degrees first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

My hope–and his– is that you will share your advice.  While I pride myself on delivering great college advice, sometimes I think collective wisdom can be more helpful.

Please take the time to read this and to comment.  He will be reading your responses and is eager for your advice.

Thanks.

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Hi. Just to let you know, i really appreciate your website. I don’t have any else where to go to for advice on how or what i should do with my life. Here it goes though:

When I was younger, I had some problems dealing with drugs. I dropped out of high school in 10th grade. After that, my life just went downhill. I’ve been in jail. I’ve had 1 strike and about 5 felonies.. I regret everything.
As of now, I am currently 21 years old. I’m a changed man. I’m sober and is trying to get my life back on track. I’m trying to get my diploma at a local college called Rancho Santiago.

The thing is that, I’ve tried looking for jobs everywhere. They won’t accept me due to my history. I mean, how am I suppose to change my life around if I can’t even get a job to support myself and my parents? I feel like my life can’t progress.

Another thing is that I’m also trying to get into a college because my dream job is to become a mechanic one day. That’s my goal. I’ve tried getting into some colleges, mostly the ones that accept one without a diploma. Well, some have called me back.. Everything went well. They said that I could get in. But then, they asked me about my history.. When i told them, they said sorry and that i could’nt get in. I’m feeling hopeless. I can’t get a job or even apply for college..

I know i’ve done some bad life decisions. But I’m hoping, I’m really hoping that I can have a second chance to have a rewarding life. Can you please recommend me in to what I should do? Either in job or education wise? or possibly both? Thankyou.

Oh, and also that if I do get a chance to get into college, do you think that somewhere out there, I can get to be a mechanic? Thankyou very much in advance. I really hope that you would help me out in this one. I really do.

Thanks again.

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Please  leave your comments.

The post Former Criminal Needs College, Job Advice first appeared on College Admission Counseling.

• More private colleges are turning to their waiting lists to fill their classes.
• More families are making deposits accepting admission to more then one institution, then bargaining hard for financial aid, pitting one school against the other.
• More students are questioning the value of a private education in a time of economic uncertainty.
• Enrollments at community colleges seem to be increasing.

 Mark Montgomery
College Admission Counselor

The post The Economy Affects College Enrollments and Admissions Strategies first appeared on College Admission Counseling.